CCR 012: Transhumanism, Personhood, and Fear

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TRANSHUMANISM, PERSONHOOD, AND FEAR: What do they have in common? Basil and Gonz discuss several articles written on IEET.org (Institute of Ethics & Emerging Technologies). The topics discussed are non-human personhood, animal rights, and fear of technological advancements.

LINKS

H.R. 3166: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112hr3166ih/pdf/BILLS-112hr3166ih.pdf

Non-Human Personhood: http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/more/leland20120530

Humanist VIew of Animal Rights: http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/more/tittle20120603

Technology and Fear: http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/more/wicks20120529

7 comments… add one
  1. That non-human personhood article is a little sketchy if you ask me. Some of the opening lines are just plain silly. It seems an extrapolation of animal rights rather than a solid basis of proposing that personhood is not exclusive to humans.

    Animals should not be exploited to horrific degrees, but because they feel pain or exhibit specific behaviour, in my opinion doesn’t merit a debate on personhood.

    I love animals and I believe that we have a long way to go in terms of rights, but they are not our equal. Wether you look at our dominion over them as Biblical or Darwinian to me the logic is the same.

    1. admin

      Good point Jonny. It’s why I think it’s strange that the transhumanists are pushing for such a wild view of personhood. As you mentioned, even the darwinian evolutionists wouldn’t particularly suggest that animals can be labelled persons.

      -Gonz

  2. Hi Basil and Gonz, Just finished listening to the podcast, and I’m really glad you dug into this whole topic, since it’s probably the one subset of the broader “end time deception” discussion that I still have the most questions about…

    Firstly, you mentioned the Genesis 6 connection, about how along with the creation of the Nephilim, there was supposedly all sorts of genetic manipulation going on with animals and plants and such, the creation of “chimeras” and everything. Now, when it comes to the Nephilim, ok, I get it. The Sons of God coming down and mating with the daughters of men, having hybrid babies (and as bizarre as it may seem to us, ok, I can accept the idea that for whatever reason, the fallen angels could have the uh “equipment” necessarily to make babies…) But how did all the rest of the genetic manipulation supposedly take place? Still haven’t heard anyone really go into any specifics as to how that might have actually occurred. Was it more or less through the same process of improper sexual relations between the fallen Watchers and the animal kingdom? Or do we assume that it must have had something to do with the super-advanced state of technology in the antediluvian era? I guess that’s where I start feeling a bit more skepticism. I mean, I’m not trying to totally poo poo the whole idea, (the fact that there is so much “mythological” material dealing with chimera type creatures definitely seems to suggest that somehow there was some genetic tinkering going on!) I guess I just have a hard time imagining how exactly that could’ve happened, without there being things like test tubes and computers and an entire techno-industrialized society to support all those things. (or maybe they supposedly did have that stuff?) I mean, I can accept the idea that many or most of the “megalithic” sites and structures around the world (which almost inevitably always have occult significance tied to them) were probably built prior to the flood. But does that mean that in those first few Nephilim-filled generations they also had full-on science labs that were sophisticated enough to actually do things like extract DNA from cells and all the rest? I dunno, just still wondering about a lot of that…

    But more importantly, I guess I’m a little puzzled as to why you chose to spend so much time focused on pointing out the logical fallacies of this particular writer, or even one particular site. (even if it is like the transhumanist “hub”). Has the “transhumanist agenda” progressed much farther than simply trying to lay a philosophical groundwork for hypothetical technological advances coming down the pipe? I mean, I would definitely agree with all your points about how trying to give animals the same rights as people would result in all sorts of legal and philosophical contradictions (and I get how it ties into the broader discussion of transhumanism), but wouldn’t the much more broadly-accepted belief in Evolution already provide enough philosophical justification for genetically “enhancing” (corrupting) our bodies?

    What I’m trying to ask is, are there any, like, “tangible” examples we can see of “transhumanism” starting to manifest itself, outside of just in the philosophical sense? (I mean, we can talk about things like UFO’s, or 9-11, or the loss of civic liberties, and point to things actually happening in the world, without being refrained to merely picking apart some speculative article somewhere, right?) Or are we still more or less in the phase of these ideas making their way into the “zeitgeist” first? (with examples like Ray Kurzweil or Katy Perry videos…) How do you see this stuff fitting into the “big picture”, so to speak? Do you think we’re just going to turn on the news one day and see a group of scientists reveal an actual “chimera”? (like, I don’t know, a person with fish gills or something?) Or maybe more subtle, like something to do with “gene therapy” or whatever? Anyways, not trying to pick on you guys at all, I just still have so many questions. This just seems like one of those topics where it’s super easy to veer off into quasi-sci-fi speculation without really getting much of a handle of what actually is happening right now. I suppose if we always have this little asterix in the conversation that says “Well, the Illuminati have all kinds of technology not made available to the public”, then maybe that’s sort of inevitable… I dunno.

    Can you help me out at all? Any further explanation? (or even any links, or authors or anything that helped you guys understand the significance of all this better?)

    1. admin

      thetruthisstrangerthanfiction,

      Thanks for the thoughtful post and all the questions. I’ll do my best to answer them for you.

      1. The technology of the antediluvian world and “sinning against plants and animals” as the Book of Jasher records. Well, I don’t know for sure what was going on or how it happened at a technical level. However, I do believe that the fallen angels were and are very advanced as far as knowledge of the ways the universe operates. Think of it this way. Let’s say there is a being named Fred living in a two dimensional plane of existence. You pass a sphere through the two dimensional plane and Fred will experience seeing a dot become a circle and go back to a dot. No matter how much we try to explain a sphere to Fred, he just won’t fully understand it. I think the level that spiritual entities understand our plane of existence is somewhat similar in gap. If they are coming from a different dimension, it makes sense. Therefore, they would be able to develop technologies in our plane of existence that may not make any sense to us in our current understanding of physics etc.

      If we stick to the Bible, God tells us there’s nothing new under the sun (Ecclesiastes 1:9). So whatever technologies we develop now, it’s nothing new, especially from the perspective of spiritual beings.

      Furthermore, if you think about how Enoch explains how the 200 fallen angels taught humanity weapon making, wearing make up, sorcery, abortion, etc etc etc, it wouldn’t be surprising at all to imagine they had the “technology” to manipulate and mess with DNA of plants and animals.

      Lastly, this genetic manipulation is echoed in the Sumerian Cuneiforms (albeit it may not be totally accurate since Zacharia Sitchin made it popular), but also in various other ancient mythologies.

      Keep in mind also that the technology we have today is based on energy consumption. All of our energy comes from limited resources. We burn energy and manipulate it to harness it and use it for directed work. But, several people over the last century starting with Tesla have demonstrated that there is a form of tapping into an energy source that does not require any type of “fuel” system that our society is constructed of. It’s my personal opinion that such technologies did exist prior to the flood. I’m sure you’ve heard about the aether, and connecting gravitational forces with electrical power using the ionosphere etc. It is also my firm belief that such technology is the crux of anti-gravity, and free energy devices. And not only that, the Illuminists have this technology, but are reluctant to release it at the moment.

      Again, I don’t know what the technology might have looked like pre flood. Test tubes and computers? Perhaps not the way we imagine it today. But the knowledge to mess with DNA and genes? Absolutely plausible given these sons of God were highly intelligent.

      2. The transhumanist agenda on the philosophical notions.

      The conversations need to happen just to be aware of what’s happening. The reality is that these things are already going on. It was last summer that this article came out:

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2017818/Embryos-involving-genes-animals-mixed-humans-produced-secretively-past-years.html

      And if this is public information, then what’s going on behind closed doors could be unimaginably scary. The reality is that the transhumanist agenda is moving forward and the Christian community is absolutely blind to it. I don’t think it alone is the culprit for any kind of end times prophetic implications, rather another tool in the shed for Satan.

      I’ve speculated in the past (albeit not on very scholarly grounds) the possibility that the beast will be some kind of avatar. Here’s the blog post I wrote on it if you want to check it out:

      http://www.facelikethesun.com/2011/05/20/transhumanism-and-the-nwo/

      The scenario I pose in that blog post is pure speculation so don’t think I am dogmatic about it by any means. However, it causes us to wonder doesn’t it?

      And as for evolution already providing the necessary groundworks for the process of transforming humanity? Absolutely. It’s there. It’s the foundation. But the transhumanists are eager to move forward in ways I don’t think the conventional folks in the scientific community are. I believe this is why they are trying to provoke philosophical logic to their agenda. You know, it’s like, “why try to find a cure for cancer, when we can just upload your consciousness onto a computer where you will be cancer free AND immortal?” That kind of thing.

      Personally, having a step daughter who turned 11 years old (I’m 29), I think about the future she will be living in and just want to make sure that they are at least aware of what might be coming down the pipe. Not to mention in light of this paradigm, some researchers believe the Mark of the Beast will be on the shoulders of the transhumanist technologies (changing our DNA…so that we can’t be saved).

      I can go on and on but I hope that gave you something to chew on. All would be resolved if Jesus returns! God Bless.

      -Gonz

      1. Thank you so much for taking the time to reply Gonz. That article about the three labs in the UK that were secretly combining animal & human DNA is particularly substantiating. I definitely agree that this is stuff is far more of an issue and a danger than the broader Christian world is willing to acknowledge, and we definitely need to be keeping our eyes on it (as best we can, since I agree that in all likelihood, the real efforts towards these aims are going on in secret…)

        I should probably also add that I definitely agree with the idea that the Watchers almost certainly came down to Mount Hermon already possessing all sorts of knowledge about the universe (which explains why they were able to impart teachings about things like distant star systems or “metaphysics”…) After all, before they fell they were “employed” by the Creator to function as a sort of middle management for many aspects of the physical world. (right?) So it’s not like they rebelled and came down, and then had to undergo years of “research” to figure out how it all works (like we do). I could never just quite grasp how they might have actually used that knowledge of mixing “seeds” and such. But then, maybe you don’t actually need things like computers and test tubes if you don’t have to do any of the research first. (sort of like Harrison Ford in the movie “Mosquito Coast”, where his scientific knowledge enabled him to construct a crude refrigerator in the jungle?) Plus, yeah, if there was some kind of ethereal energy source being used (“Egyptian lightbulbs” and whatnot…), then who knows what all they were actually capable of…

        Okay, one more quick question guys… (since I think it also ties into the whole transhumanism topic)

        Have either of you (or anyone else here) heard of this guy Doug Riggs, and the whole “Nephilim Mothers” thing? What is up with THAT? Like a year ago I listened to several interviews he did with these women who claim to have been forced to have sex with fallen angels, and some who were even told they would give birth to the antichrist (!?) The thing is, you listen to these women, and you have to admit that it seems like a very strange thing to just be making up to get attention or whatever. There seems to be a lot of similarity with much of what Russ Dizdar talks about (they talk about a lot of the same SRA/DID stuff). But still, I walked away from it really not knowing what to think, like this is fringe even of the fringe! Anyhow, what you think about that…?

        1. admin

          Hey Truth,

          I’ve heard of her story. In fact, I believe I heard Doug Riggs interviewed on Accelerattion Radio with LA Marzulli some kind ago.

          My belief is that it’s entirely possible. However, I think in her particular case, it is a spiritual “rape” that occurred, not particularly a physical one. If you’ve ever read the work of Dr. Rick Straussman and his efforts to do research on the drug DMT, you’ll know that subjects had to start support groups after the experiments because they experienced entities raping them, harming them, molesting them etc.

          But who knows, maybe something far more sinister is going on.

          -Gonz

  3. Arnn

    This is pure speculation on my part, however I picture the science of the pre-flood world as something out of a steampunk novel. Perhaps something like Gene Wolfe’s “Fifth Head of Cerberus”. Whatever it was like there was surely a fantastical element involved.

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