CCR 048: Douglas Hamp and the Veil Between Heaven and Earth

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WHAT IS THE VEIL BETWEEN HEAVEN AND EARTH? We often think of heaven as some ethereal place far far away. But while modern science is beginning to discover the possibilities of multiples dimensions at places like CERN, Bible scholars like Douglas Hamp are rediscovering what the Bible teaches about heaven to be a place just beyond the veil of our three dimensional world. Douglas Hamp is a graduate of Hebrew University of Jerusalem with an M.A. in the Hebrew Bible with specialization in ancient languages including Biblical Hebrew and Koine Greek. He is currently working on a fictional book looking at the Millennium reign of Jesus on earth. In our conversation, Doug brings to light the many descriptive matters in the Bible like fire and the veil that have become “theologized” by modern day Christian institutions.

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The Veil Between Heaven and Earth

6 comments… add one
  1. rowdy

    Hey guys,

    Another thought provoking episode. I reckon Hamp’s discussion on the veil linked in well with Deyo’s past contribution to the notion of different levels of energy between the dimensions. I had never considered this concept before. Just another example of “how did I miss that?”
    Basil I appreciated your insert concerning the veil as a protective barrier from God. I was hoping one of you would qualify Mr Hamp’s dangerous God hypothesis. As I was listening, and this occurs on the regular with most Christian podcasts, (by most I mean the 6 or 7 I subscribe to) I felt that an adequate Christological perspective was somewhat absent from the guests material. Comments that go along the lines of, “we often pay too much attention to the NT and neglect the OT” cause me to wonder by what hermeneutic are we to proceed? – what is the ground and grammar of our theological method? Is not Jesus Christ the light-logic of the cosmos? I do get confused when I hear comments like “God is a fire”. Really? God is fire? Sure we have scriptural evidence to support that conclusion but what does Jesus say about God? Whilst I am ever open to correction, I don’t see fire as the defining feature of the one Jesus calls “Abba, Father.” How can one commune with fire? Fire is so impersonal, faceless, Greek. Ok, I just remembered (I’m free styling here) that Jesus Christ is described as having fiery attributes in Revelation. Yet he is not a fire. If we concur with the Nicene Creed that Jesus Christ is “homousios to patri” – of the same being as the Father, then fire is an inadequate description of the nature and or character of God.
    But let’s for arguments sake conclude that God is fire. Then we must also conclude, should we remain faithful to the patristic vision of God as triune – Father, Son and Holy Spirit; that the Son who became flesh of our flesh, was crucified, resurrected and ascended and sits as the eternal and incarnate Son of the Father at the right hand of the Father from whom the Holy Spirit was poured out on all flesh as the embedded witness of Christ in humanity and humanity in Christ and what is mediated to us is the fiery communion of the ancient of days. Phew… So that fire which emits from God; Father, Son and Holy Spirit, burns against what exactly? Humanity? Isn’t Jesus Christ the new Adam? The new Adam who was born-again from the old Adam? Isn’t he the thermo-nuclear suit of humanity? Isn’t he the one in, by, for, through whom all things were created and have their being? Isn’t he the gospel that has fulfilled the law, that was prophesied by the prophets of Israel, that was conceived by the Holy Spirit, that was heralded by the angels, that was declared by both apostles and angels? Isn’t he the author and perfecter of our faith? Doesn’t Paul express in no uncertain terms that “when Christ died, all died” … “If all died in Adam, then how much more is all raised in Christ”? (I paraphrase)
    What am I struggling to say?? Fire… yes… What is it burning against? Could it be anything that attempts to subvert or conceal or eclipse the glorious revelation of our adoption as sons and daughters in Christ? Christ? The only Son of the Father – the exclusive son – who stooped to include us in his communion with his Father in the fellowship of the Holy Spirit. Fire fails to communicate the original and unchanged passion that motivated the Father to send his Son into our butchered reality, to convert that false reality through the bloodied agony of his obedience culminating at the cross with the declaration “It is finished.”
    Maybe I’m missing something in Mr Hamp’s discussion.
    My nagging concern with many topics is the very real potential for people to skip over the mystery of our adoption and confuse ideas such a fire with legal abstractions of holiness rather than the glorious, beautiful wonder of holiness that is condensed in the communion of the trinity and extended to us.
    Maybe, again, and this is my disclaimer, I missed Mr Hamp’s grounding of his fire-talk in Christ.
    Interesting stuff though…

    Sheesh…

    rowdy

    1. londonhermit

      Very thought provoking. Im always leary of the Jew for Jesus crowd as most of the time they leave out the Jesus part. We need not fear coming to God because we have his Son and High Priest who has made a way for us. Great discernment.

    2. Clueless

      I do get confused when I hear comments like “God is a fire”. Really? God is fire?

      Yup. Go check out Hebrews… 🙂

      I loved this interview. Doug Hamp’s a dude.

  2. First off I must say that corrupting the seed lecture helped me move forward with many things that I was already finding in the word about what is coming in the future for humanity and for the christians. I am glad that you do what you do and hope that the Lord can continue blessing you with wisdom and insight. That the Lord can remove corruption and deception from breaking you down, and that his peace can rest upon you always. I started my own blog inspired by your work and Gonz from http://www.facelikethesun.com. I always am tuned into Deyo’s work, Marzullis, Tom Horn, Gonz, Chuck Missler and yourself. I hope to further the word of God somehow and prepare the future generations (if not our own) for the transhumanism/ Anti-Christ system that is coming.

    Hope you can check out some of the info on my blog when you can.

    Thanks

    Reed Shaking in the Wind

  3. Again,

    You can find me at http://reedshakinginthewind.blogspot.com.br (that is the website for my blog).

    See you there.

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