CCR 089: Flat Earth with Mark Sargent

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OUR MOTTO AT CANARY CRY RADIO HAS ALWAYS BEEN TO “THINK OUTSIDE THE CAGE” and this episode lives up to it! There’s an old Incubus song called ‘Wish You Were Here’ with the lyrics, “The sky resembles a back-lit canopy with holes punched in it.” Well according to our guest, such a description may not be too far from the truth. The first thing we are taught in school is that 1+1=2, and that the earth is a spherical globe. But what if, JUST WHAT IF, this entire enterprise was a sham, the greatest conspiracy to ever behold humanity? In this episode we explore the impossible, the unfathomable, the ridiculous notion, that the earth is actually flat! Our guest is Mark Sargent, he’s the champion of the first pinball world tournament in 1994 and has worked in the technology sector ever since, but he also happens to be a newly convert to the flat earth, or enclosed world theory. His YouTube channel MarkKSargent has published a series of videos called Flat Earth Clues, which he describes as videos “designed to get both our heads around the design of the flat earth system we live in, and who has been involved in the deception to hide it from you.” Put aside all of your conditioning and preconceived notions for this episode, as it will challenge your “normalcy bias.”

As a side note, stick around until the end of the episode where Gonz gives a little update on the varying views of the flat earth model, notably from Math Boylan of TheNASAChannel who believes that Mark Sargent and others who promote an enclosed earth are government dis-info agents.

SOME EXAMPLES OF FLAT EARTH BIBLE PASSAGES

Isaiah 40:21-23

Do you not know? Do you not hear?
Has it not been told you from the beginning?
Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth?
It is he who sits above the circle of the earth,
and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers;
who stretches out the heavens like a curtain,
and spreads them like a tent to dwell in;
who brings princes to nothing,
and makes the rulers of the earth as emptiness.

Psalm 19:4

Yet their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world. In the heavens God has pitched a tent for the sun.

Proverbs 8:27

I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,

1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.”

 Psalm 93:1: “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm …”

 Psalm 96:10: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable …”

 Psalm 104:5: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.”

 Isaiah 45:18: “…who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast…”

LINKS

Mark K Sargent YouTube Channel (https://www.youtube.com/user/markksargent)

Math Boylan [TheNASAChannel] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxyCpWcg-kE)

Satellite Hoax (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLMRWvXuc5U)

Former NASA Artist Matt Boylan (https://www.youtube.com/user/TheNASAchannel)

Eric Dubay (https://www.youtube.com/user/ericdubay77)

The Atlantean Conspiracy (http://www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/)

LOFI Files (CLICK HERE)

62 comments… add one
  1. jude isbell

    Im still confused. So he’s proposing that the sky is a projection? Who made the projection? Is he saying God made it or it was man made?

    1. Jerry

      I just don’t buy it. I especially appreciated the kind and fair representation that Gonz ended with–and I won’t call Mark Sargent a “shill” per se, but feel that this notion of flat earth can be used as bait to send Christians off on a wild goose chase, and worse, greatly diminish our credibility in helping bring people to Christ. I don’t buy it and feel it is extremely dangerous. I certainly question the source of the controversy on this topic. It puts us in a seriously compromised position, and one that could be quite useful to the enemy wishing to draw our work into question publicly.

      1. Jerry

        I love the fact that Canary Cry takes up these topics. Please know that I’m not a hater. I feel that this is an opportunity to share perspectives and concerns. I’ve revised (for example) my view of Michael Heiser–who I didn’t initially trust. I now feel that his intent is true and I thank Gonz and Basil for bringing him to my attention. I just wanted to add a couple other things to think about regarding Flat Earth. The Flat Earth position relies on the notion that scientists working today on satellites, aviation and space systems (who understand the physics involved in refuting the theory–or what it would take to alter data to create such a deception) are somehow either complicit in a coverup or that they are incapable of finding systems errors in their own calculations or deductions handed to them. In response to Sargent, is there an endless stream of scientists giving the nod to working surreptitiously or agreeing to not question official statements on Antarctica? Aside from a couple hand-picked nay-sayers, are the rest so gullible? I feel that too many of the flat-earth “proofs” are set up as non-sequitur refutations–leaps from unexpected characteristics to “This must mean that the Earth is Flat!” Rather than establish doubt in one thing as proof in another, I’d need real data AND evidence that all logic and unscripted evidence (weather balloon videos, millions of independent commentaries of astronomical analysis) were all somehow just … wrong. I’m only willing to be a negative voice here because I care.

      2. Dr. Steve

        Amen!

      3. Clint

        Its ok Jerry …. Most of the public suffers from ‘Cognitive Dissonance’ like you are … its simply too much to wrap their minds around. 🙂

    2. Tomas

      It is not being done to you it is being done by you.

  2. Eric

    Hey guys. I don’t let myself think about this one all the time, because it bakes my noodle in 5 minutes. But I have to say that the idea clicked with me almost immediately. Interestingly, I think that the reason why it clicked is because right before I ran into Mark Sargent and others, I read Brian Godawa’s “Noah Primeval” in which he places his biblical characters into the literal ancient Hebrew view of the flat earth with the firmament and Sheol underneath. As such, I was imagining Godawa’s epic story in essentially the same way that Mark Sargent describes to us in this episode.

    In Brian’s appendix of the Noah book, he explains (as Michael Heiser also does), that the ancient world took an essentially flat earth view because that’s all they knew. Both of these researchers say that God provides inspiration via ancient flat earthers because the Bible is not a literal science book, and there are underlying theological truths to the “pillars, four corners, firmament,” etc. But what if the inspiration goes deeper than mere poetry and ancient Hebrew minds, and is actual revelation for us that describes the way the world really is?

    If Sargent is onto something, it also breathes life into the Joshua account in which the sun stood still. Maybe the sun really did stop, as the Bible says, instead of the globe ceasing its spinning…?

    One final point: The “flat earth” illuminati card says that the flat earthers are onto something. Uh…wut.

    Love the show in general, gents.

    1. Tony F

      ” The “flat earth” illuminati card says that the flat earthers are onto something. Uh…wut.”

      No way! That’s crazy. If true it completely settles the last of my reservations. Seriously. I want to see the cards.

      1. Unplugged
  3. John McKenney

    I love you guys and most of your shows, but your really reaching lately. Bigfoot? Flat Earth? Fake moon landing? Running out of topics? Keep up the good work.

    1. Brian

      What did you think this channel is about? If you want standard news or a simple Bible study, there are plenty of those out there. There is enough evidence that a “Big Foot” creature exists and it was interesting to hear a Christian perspective on it. And this whole flat Earth thing is a fascinating concept and also has implications to the Bible. If you have an inquisitive mind, then these topics are at least looking in to.

  4. John Theurer

    OK… wow. My mind is blown and imagination being stretched like a wad of gum on a hot sidewalk sticking to a shoe. I haven’t finished the episode yet as have had to take breaks to ponder all this. I may have like 20 tabs open in my browser with web pages and youtube videos trying look up all that Mark has mentioned. Love you guys and your ministry! Ok… back to the program.

  5. Clyde Frog
  6. Tony F

    This episode was a bigger waste of time than the 3½ hr ramble w/ Josh Peck. If you were going to do a flat earth episode you should have talked with Eric Dubay. There are actual flat earth proofs. You wasted 1½hrs talking about mis-info “clues”.

    1. admin

      Funny how Dubay and Sargent both talk about a lot of the same stuff. I address the Sargent shill accusation at the end. The man I would love to have on is Math Boylan, former NASA artist, and believes in a flat earth model that doesn’t have a dome. Very compelling.

    2. Tony F

      I take it back about it being a waste of time. I’m glad you took the time to explore the concept. I still say that you missed the opportunity to examine the historic experiments that have been conducted that prove the earth is flat. Those are the things I wish I had our hosts insight on.

    3. Tony F

      I was only half way through the episode when I stopped to write this comment. I was hasty in my judgment. Just seeing one comment here from someone who’s reality was stretched is sufficient to encourage me. I’m looking forward to the interview with Math. Hope you can pull it off.
      My appreciation for Dubay is his more scientific approach and vast historical knowledge. He has written a book on the subject. Truth be told, though, I can’t understand how none of these public flat earth talking heads are Christians. Seems so obvious. Thanks again.

  7. Brian

    Like Basil, I was extremely skeptical at first and I’m still not convinced but I have to say it’s a mind-blowing concept and would better answer a lot of things. I had no idea how world travel could work on a closed system at first but after seeing that map he was talking about, it makes a lot more sense. I have never seen such a map!

    He’s also right about the plane travel. My dad and brother are air traffic controllers and I always wondered why the planes take really weird routes sometimes. They often appear to be going very indirectly to get somewhere but it’s much faster. Now my dad explained it as due to the earth being narrower towards the north and south poles so it cuts time out and also winds tend to be more favorable which makes sense but this map would also make those flight paths much more direct which is extremely interesting. Also I’ve never seen a flight path go all the way through Antarctica, only nearby it.

    Another thing that came to my mind during the interview was the book of Enoch where he talks about touring the world/universe with an angel. The description Enoch gave makes a lot more sense with this type of system as opposed to the currently accepted global system (although I don’t really put faith in the Book of Enoch, I just think it’s very interesting and could be at least partially true). Also, the verse in the Bible where it says they stopped, reversed, or slowed the sun down. That would cause all sorts of problems with a solar system (although there are some good theories/explanations) but no issues with a flat/enclosed system. Now he did say there is no ancient civilization that didn’t believe in flat/enclosed earth but what about the Babylonian artifacts that show a solar system (with 1 extra planet)?

    I think the implications of this type of system being revealed with clear evidence would shake the foundations of the atheists/naturalist’s view significantly as Mark mentioned. If they were in a simulation type environment, it would become more obvious that there is at least some sort of God or intelligence behind it and that Earth really is unique and special. So could the global/solar system model be a massive deception by Lucifer like evolution was to get people to fall from God and make them easier to manipulate? But then again, could all those beautiful pictures and videos of Earth from space really be fake or manipulated to make it look like a globe? So many scenarios/possibilities are going through my head right now!

    Hehe, I know you got a lot of haters and detractors over this episode but I’m glad you did it. This one was truly “outside the cage” and that’s why I listen. At the very least, I won’t think someone is totally bonkers if they believe it anymore. As for myself, well, I’d say I’d have to do more research and would be very curious to hear what others who are investigating this theory find. Thanks.

  8. Re: The man I would love to have on is Math Boylan, former NASA artist… — Outstanding performance and think many need to consider the good quality in of Mark–simply professional. Result–points out how important finding a “holy relic” has meaning and especially finding it true. Those pointing out sometimes subtle differences in theory, thought real differences, reminds me of denominational fighting. The point of truth is to bring God’s creation, obscured by enemies thereof, into clearer view. There are many when hearing a certain level of “cr*p” and certain “vanity words” that are a turn off and though we’re not in church, who’d want someone next to them calling out demon’s worship. Great topic that leaves lasting mud on the caller and hearer. I say this because of efforts in past week to listen to Boylan who needs a dog muzzle on that trap ot his. Be warned the show may have new users who will never be back after his lack of self control. Great work and love for you all, Gary Smith

  9. (Edited) Re: The man I would love to have on is Math Boylan, former NASA artist… — Outstanding performance and think many need to consider the good quality in of Mark–simply professional. Result–points out how important finding a “holy relic” has meaning and especially finding it true. Those pointing out sometimes subtle differences in theory, thought real differences, reminds me of denominational fighting. The point of truth is to bring God’s creation, obscured by enemies thereof, into clearer view. There are many when hearing a certain level of “cr*p” and certain “vanity words” that are a turn off and though we’re not in church, who’d want someone next to them calling out demon’s worship. Great topic that leaves lasting mud on the caller and hearer. I say this because of efforts in past week to listen to Boylan who needs a dog muzzle on that trap of his. Be warned the show may have new users who will never be back after his lack of self control. Great work and love for you all, Gary Smith

  10. Jo Trombley

    I have no problem believing this theory? And I believe the bible supports the basic idea. And by the way guys thank you for discussing things like this, you handle these crazy ideas very well from a biblical view. People just get scared when you mess with their paradigm

  11. Dr. Steve

    Interesting but really bizarre thesis. I don’t really object to you guys interviewing these weird theorists, but I wish that more effort went into researching the topic and the alternative rebuttals. Especially Basil, who sometimes revels in his expressed ignorance. It has been cute for a while, but one wonders if he will ever be interested in learning just a little bit more real and practical knowledge…

    So, rant over, things that immediately pop into my mind without even researching (And, intrigued, I have listened to videos through #8 of his series). First, spherical earth is demonstrable back to the 2nd century BC, with Eratosthenes. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eratosthenes). This is something I remember learning in physics in High School and College. The experiment is basically involving measuring shadows of the sun from different angles and using geometry to measure the circumference of the earth. I do not hear this addressed. Or the principles of navigation. Mr. Sargent does not know enough about the earth and spherical navigation to see that navigation on a flat earth is radically different from navigation on a sphere. I did not hear a discussion of the zodiac, the ecliptic, and how we cannot see the southern constellations because they are below the horizon. But, travel slowly, and at a rate commensurate with the required earthly curvature, the proper constellations are visible. And, the math all works. If we were under a dome, then the geometry of the non-collimated light, the angles, the rapid change based on position, all would be visible and callable. Eratosthenes’ calculations would have failed, or shown a curvature or lack thereof. In fact, his null hypothesis was that the earth was flat. But he was puzzling over the observation that his shadow at noon was long on the summer solstice in Europe, but in Egypt and further south, the shadow was much shorter.

    Another set of problems involved physics, and the sun. The sun is not just a point source, a set of LEDs. It is a massive source of energy that heats the world, and allows crops to grow. If it were closer, we would have problems with circular hot spots, as opposed to the steady radiation we currently see. He also does not address planetary energy issues. The energy needed to do this is astounding. A sphere is a logical construct as it allows even spread of underground heat, and explains things like weather. His model does not explain the destructive effects of sunspots. It does not explain gravity, it does not explain the source of such an unbelievably massive collection of furnaces, cooling systems, local gravity generators, and such. Without planetary rotation, he does not explain wind without fans, cooling without spherical tilt. If the north pole is the center, why is it cold like the south, and not a tropical paradise? Since that would be the apex of his dome, why is there no difference in the stars, as the projected or illuminated points would be noticeably smaller. And, why do massive telescopes work? They wold not focus at infinity if the dome was only a few hundred miles away. If our flat planet was on the surface of a massive sphere, something so big that the whole planet would sit flat n it, why then are we not crushed but the ridiculous gravity generated by a planet itself as big as the sun? Or if it is floating in water–enough to contain the mass of the earth, as he says, the gravity problem is far worse.

    Now, some of his points regarding anomalies are interesting. But a flat earth is far too contrived a notion. And, if the technology exists to make a flat earth a reality, then we are living in a world/universe that is malleable by its creator at the atomic and wavelength level.

    That sounds suspiciously like God’s Creation. Fundamentally, his thesis is a spectacular attempt to explain the anomalies of creation without God, invoking some demigod super genius to make this all work. As Jeremy Clarkson would say, “Ambitious, but Rubbish!”

    Shalom!

  12. Dr. Steve

    And…I relistened to the episode, and more obvious problems and objections quickly came to mind.

    I listened to the discussion of eclipses. If the sun is on the dome, why doesn’t Europe and North America and Asia have sunlight at the same time. Simple rebuttal: I I saw the Malaysian Grand Prix live on TV 2 weeks ago. We were in darkness about 1 AM, I think we had a moon, and they had a very hot sun (which messed up their tires for the race, BTW) and the presenters noted their lack of shadows in the heat and midday sun. So they see the sun very differently than we do here in North America. Sargent and flat earthers need a solution to this problem. The solution to segregating light to a flat plane requires bringing the light much closer, but that is a big problem as I mention below.

    As if to answer this and other objections, remarkably Sargent’s main proofs are fictional movies. Like the Truman Show. OK, let’s cue Truman Show! In this show, there are obvious reality failures. Not just the border he eventually discovers, but what about plants? I think you guys have lots video, art and projection experience. OK, what kind of PROJECTED hot light do you need, to: 1) make a credible sun, 2) a sun so bright that it makes plants grow robustly in a relatively small dome of a few miles of diameter, 3) a light really hot and bright, but given the physics of light, somehow built so it keeps one from being fried when being close to this artificial sun, especially in the morning and evening.

    For information on how hard this is to do indoors, go to any website selling lamps for indoor gardening, and see how much energy is needed. And read about how many house fires are started by the intense heat caused by artificial lamps that in spite of searing heat, can only can grow almost trivially small amounts of vegetables per watt of light. Now scale that to the Truman Show levels, and it becomes completely ludicrous! There would be massive heat issues, shadow issues, parallax, issues, etc. Now, we can suspend belief for a movie, but he uses movies to demonstrate and scale his beliefs to a planetary level. This is evidence?

    OK, so I’ll also turn to fiction. CS Lewis proposed Narnia as a flat planet. But his world was harmonious to a disk world. Daylight was experienced as more or less the same in Calormen as in Narnia. The sun was hotter and bigger at the disk’s edge, which again fits the smaller dome world. Lewis created a harmonious disk world that worked, and is quite different in many ways from our world. There were some problems left, but this was fiction, after all.

    Suggestion for simple fact checking: take graph paper, establish a scale, and draw his dome model. He proposes a dome a few hundred miles high, and a few hundred miles deep. But, the earth’s circumference is reportedly 24, 901 miles. We believe this to be true since that is what circumnavigation requires, and this fits with flight times around the world. If the aggregate is 1,000 miles, the ratio of height to width/diameter is roughly 25:1. But wait, half the height is invisible, so the ratio (including light source) is more like 50:1. But wait! you cannot illuminate the East and West hemispheres simultaneously. Which raises a big problem, because to make day and night work it has to be close, but to eliminate (minimize) parallax it has to be far, but if it is far then it is weak and dim, and lights the whole disk at once. Does he propose a flying shutter? A perpetual eclipse? With feathered translucent edges? And again, what about plants?

    I opened Photoshop, and made a 24:1 rectangle. Then I made a right triangle, eyeballing the right angle at the equator, and the apex where I live, roughly 45 degrees north latitude. That gave me an elevation of the sun of about 6.5 degrees. If I took a 50:1 ratio, the angle would be 3.25 degrees. But, as a photographer hobbyist, I know the sun would be 45 degrees of elevation. 3 to 6 degrees is what a day is like on the arctic circle at that time of year. Therefore the simple geometry of his model just does not work. It would work if the sun is at an approximately infinite distance (93 million miles works). But then that distance would not work for a disk earth. but it DOES work for a sphere earth!

    And, his theory makes every engineer working with GPS liars. That is because when I fire up my GPS, I can see the satellites being used. The GPS in each device works on timing and location data for satellites flying at a specific speed and altitude, measuring the doppler shifted signals from many staellite-based-based synchronized atomic clocks. If we had a flat earth, then your smart phone GPS would not work, because they depend on spherical geometry, doppler mathematics, and stable quantum physics. I don’t even want to think of how one would simulate that mathematically on a flat plane.Or what the radio emitters for the fictional GPS satellites would be!

    Oh, and what about the magnetic field of the earth? Works for compasses, and has for centuries. And also for eagles and homing pigeons! But the magnetic field in his model would have to be based on some kind of dynamo centered under the north pole (so north is OK) yet somehow projecting its point source south pole as a smooth circle at the edges of flat earth. What kind of magnetic field is that? South won’t work. His model right out of the gate is broken on all of these observations.

    If he is serious, he has to explain all of these problems and then some before he gains any more notoriety. Because as it stands, he proposes an incredible ridiculously complex system of simulation on a grand scale to simulate living on a sphere while really on a disk.

    Finally, what about theology? If the world is this contrived disk, NASA is not the only bunch of liars. He makes God a liar, because all of the celestial mechanics and spherical geometry and navigation that harmonizes the earth as a sphere are predicated on a spherical earth. If this is all a charade, then we have immense deception. Is this the nature of God? YHVH? It would seem so if he is right. But he does not have a clear statement on God’s nature, and seems to be attracted to this pantheistic god or some super-race above us.

    Unfortunately, without any of these fairly simple rebuttals, you have immensely validated this crazy and physically unworkable theory. That means so many listeners will place his “truth” on a similar plane as other guests of yours who do proclaim serious theories that cast doubts on the paradigm. Perfect disinformation, sinking reasonable theories with his crazy beliefs.

    It is fine to think outside the box, but realize that the box has to have some basic rules. To think otherwise is to completely accept postmodern thinking that there is no such thing as truth. To believe that is finally to destroy your own belief system. If anything is possible than nothing is predictable.

    So please, think outside the box, but place a special emphasis on the word think.Really, it is not mean to ask hard questions. If in doubt, run this stuff by Dr. Future. His Ph.D. requires the dependability of chemistry and physics.

    Again, Shalom!

    1. Geoffrey

      All good points, Dr. Steve. I thought the episode was fun but I accepted that that was pretty much all that it was. I thought that Mr. Sargent’s construction would be interesting in a novel and it certainly fits the ancient jewish worldview that the (flatish) world was contained in the body cavity of Tiamat with her ribs forming the “mountains” rimming the world but it really didn’t fit the physical observations of the universe that the “internet intelligence” reviews regularly. I even thought that his maintenance of the “Hollow Earth” corridor at the North Pole was a nice touch. I also thought that I detected hints of H. P. Lovecraft’s “At the Mountains of Madness” in his story of the 1956 “evacuation” of Antarctica.

      The only real counter that I thought that I’d offer is that Mr. Sargent’s two ship test of the circumference of Antarctica has already (in essence) been done in a time period that far pre-dates his 1956 Antarctica “evacuation”. We have extensive records of whaling vessels in Antarctic waters in the 1800’s. Their ship logs (many of which are still archived in different locations) would contain their time and distance information as they traveled around Antarctica. To my knowledge, these whaling vessels found Antarctica to be pretty much as big as the globe rather than flat Earth would suggest. As with your mention of the Eratosthenes proof, I thought that the idea of using 19th Century ship logs to prove a globe Earth in the face of Mr. Sargent’s 21st Century internet proofs was amusing.

  13. Jeff

    Greetings and saltines brother and sisters in Christ.

    OK I understand way people do not think the moon landings are real, do not totally agree with the conclusion. I think the evidence is bait and switch for top secret space program.

    OK flat earth… First of all majority opinion as always been there earth is round like a ball. It is a historical myth that was first an insult that your ancestors though the earth was flat. Back then people went outside and saw as you can see today if you go outside that curvature of the earth over the horizon so they observed the earth is round. This history myth is many used to insult Christianity.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YzeGRFDIms

    I ask that everyone go outside make you own observations, use your own head, pray to god to show you the truth, and meditate on this.

  14. I have no qualms with exploring an idea as “crazy” as a flat earth, but this sure one that would require a LOT of vetting…

    As to his videi refering to plane flightsun the southern hemisphere, I found a direct flight from Sydney to Santiago Chile in a few minutes. So would Santiago supposedly be too far north to pose a problen then ?

    1. Brian

      That flight doesn’t go all the way through Antarctica, it only goes near it which would still make sense on their circular world map.

      1. Dr. Steve

        No, the point he is making is that on the flat earth view, Australia and South America are maximally separated, by about half of the circumference. That would be double of what would otherwise be as on the globe that distance is about 1/4 the circumference. That means a 7,800 mile flight would have to be more like 15,000 miles. I am not sure there is a commercial liner made that can make that distance. He alludes to the GPS disappearing, but he does not understand world traffic control. As the Malaysia Air Flight showed, once a flight is away from ground radar, it is invisible. GPS is not bidirectional, it is an electronic beacon. All flights disappear from logs once over deep water. North Atlantic routes have lots of radar contacts, but the South Atlantic and South Pacific have none. Exactly what Sargent is complaining about. It is not a flat earth issue, it is an air traffic control issue. Read again about the missing airliner, and the crashed Air France flight off South America that similarly disappeared as it fell off radars.

  15. I actually went and read all of reasons in a PDF copy of the book ONE HUNDRED PROOFS THAT the earth is NOT A GLOBE. (1895 reprint from 1885). Must warn that many of these do not always work well but worth reading. There was one that really stood out and a couple of others. If a boat dissapears in the vast distance then one is only seeing a perspective’s reduction in size. A telescope brings the hull, claimed to be below the earth curvature’s “hill of water”, back into view and I’ve seen this exampled in some YouTube videos. The book states that when the ship’s hull “goes down” or around the curve of the earth one only has to look left or right at a wider horizon–no curve in those directions. Wow. Lots of love, Gary

  16. Chris

    This is interesting because we are told in Revelation that God will create a new heaven and a new earth. I’ve wondered if the antichrist would ever attempt to fool the world in such a way, which makes me think of Chris White’s book about the false messiah. If the world is indeed flat then the antichrist could show the world the true state of this earth. Which could be used as a way of “creating” a new heaven and earth. A fake Jesus shows up, reveals that earth is flat and that outer space is different than what we thought, thus creating a new heaven and earth. Maybe a globe is just another part of the deception. Just a thought. Wanted to share my 2 cents.

    1. Chris, I had a different thought regarding Satan “creating” a new heaven and new earth by way of deceiving the world into a globe, equals mass delusion toward the End Times. The round earth has only been “certain” sinse the early 1900s.

      Gary
      _______

    2. Truthy1

      I like the way your mind is working ! Now the gears in my head are churning ! It makes sense that we are being deceived and we will be deceived in the future. I think sometimes we over complicate things instead of using the K.I.S.S. principal. All I can say is Wow what a concept,Test everything !

  17. La

    while listening yesterday i asked myself “Does it matter to me if GOD created a “flat”
    (i picture a snow-cone) or spherical Earth? Absolutely not! Bless God, He IS in control! Thank you both for a fun and brain stretching show! Below is a blessing by Milburn Cockrel, that puts this ” Earth issue” in perspective, courtesy of Grace Gems.

    The god of popular Christianity!

    (Milburn Cockrell, “The Master of the World!”)

    “Yours, O LORD, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the victory and the majesty, indeed everything that is in the heavens and the earth! Yours is the dominion, O LORD, and You exalt Yourself as head over all. Both riches and honor come from You, and You rule over all, and in Your hand is power and might!” 1 Chronicles 29:11-12

    In these days of man-centered religion, verses like these have been ignored. The pulpits of our land preach . . .
    a defeated God,
    a disappointed Christ and
    a defenseless Holy Spirit.
    Man has been deified–and God dethroned.
    God has been relegated to the background.

    The God most people believe in has benevolent intentions, yet He is unable to carry them out. He wants to bless men, but they will not let Him. The average church-goer thinks Satan has gained the upper hand, and that God is to be pitied rather than worshiped. The god of popular Christianity has a weak smile and a halo!

    To suppose in the slightest that God has failed, or that He has been defeated, is the height of foolishness and the depth of impiety! The religious world needs to get God off the charity list!

    The Bible knows nothing of a defeated, disappointed, and defenseless God. The God of the Bible is the “Almighty God” (Genesis 17:1) Who has all power in Heaven and on earth (Matthew 28:18). With Him nothing is impossible (Luke 1:37) or too hard (Jeremiah 32:17). His eternal purpose is being worked out. Everything is going according to His plan, and all things are under His control.

    The God of the Bible is the Supreme Being in the universe! He is the most High, higher than the highest. He has no superiors and no equals.
    God is God. He does . . .
    as He pleases,
    only as He pleases,
    always as He pleases.

    “He is in one mind, and who can turn Him? What His soul desires, even that He does” (Job 23:13). Agreeing with this is Psalm 115:3: “But our God is in the heavens: He has done whatever He has pleased.” As the Master of the World He declares: “My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure!” (Isaiah 46:10)

    God is the Supreme Being and the Sovereign of the universe. He exercises His power . . .
    as He wills,
    when He wills,
    where He wills.
    “All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing. But He does according to His will in the host of Heaven, and among the inhabitants of earth. No one can ward off His hand or say to Him: What have You done?” (Daniel 4:35)

    God governs all His creatures and their actions. The events that take place on earth do not take place by chance, or fate, or luck. The so-called accidents are not even incidents with the Master of the World. He numbered the hairs of our head and noted the sparrow’s fall in eternity past by His “determinate counsel and foreknowledge” (Acts 2:23).

    The Master of the World set the bounds of our habitation on earth. The number of our months is with Him, and our days are appointed!

    God is holding the helm of the universe, and regulating all events. The Master of the World “works all things after the counsel of His own will” (Ephesians 1:11). It is God’s eternal right to do all His pleasure. He is not accountable to any of His creatures. Job 33:13 declares: “He gives no account of any of His matters.”

    God controls all things–or nothing.
    He must either rule–or be ruled.
    He must either sway–or be swayed.
    He must either accomplish His will–or be thwarted by His creatures.
    He is not obligated to leave the affairs of this world to be governed by accident, chance, or the will of sinful men.

    If we admit that God absolutely governs all things according to the counsel of His own will, then we admit that He has determined what shall and what shall not transpire in time and eternity. To deny His universal control of all things, is to deny His eternal power and Godhead. If He has the power and wisdom to determine all events–then He can cause all things to work together for good to those who love Him (Romans 8:28).

  18. Chris

    This might be way outside the cage, but here is a thought. We know from Revelation that God will create a new heaven and a new earth. This made me think of Chris White’s book about the false messiah. What if a man claiming to be Christ reveals to the world, in a miraculous (signs and wonders) that the earth is actually flat and it reaches into a vast area we have never known, and also reveals a new kind of outer space. Maybe the earth being a globe is part of the deception all along. Maybe the antichrist decieves the world by actually revealing a truth. Just my 2 cents.

  19. Brenda

    Thank you soo very much for presenting an open platform to discuss topics others automatically dismiss. Flat Earth Clues gave me what I was looking for and thankfully Mark Sargent posted his email. So far he has responded to all of my questions and comments, can you please tell me who else would do that? Mark is not just professional he is passionate about sharing his research. It takes guts to be this vulnerable to attack so he must be doing it for a reason. Thank you for hearing him out Gonz, you sir are a true seeker of knowledge.

  20. Jay

    You are really making it hard for me to keep listening. I used to admire the cutting edge prophecy views expressed here. But lately the shows have been, well, Bigfoot? Moon landing hoax? And by far the worse yet, Flat Earth? What’s next, chupacabras?

  21. Christine

    I found this really interesting. I’ve always struggled to understand why planes fly north when they cross the Atlantic. If the earth was flat(ish) the flight paths would make sense.

    On the other hand, the other planets are spherical, so why would earth be different?

    I’m sure I heard that maps used to have east at the top instead of north, which is where we get words like “orientation”. Where does that fit with the theory?

    1. Re: On the other hand, the other planets are spherical, so why would earth be different?

      Christine, I’ve spent the past few days researching the topic of flat earth. Why not as it was a position of the early church for a very long time. The only reasons I’ve been able to fit the picture is that man has in a special place of God’s plan. In the last twenty years three satellites were sent up to measure cosmic background radiation. Why three? Each came back showing a cross of warm and cold intersection with earth on the equator and tilt (as best I understand). It is called by scientists as “the axis of evil”–but why? It shows the earth, the solar system or galaxy must be a focal point.

      Gary
      ______

      Gary

  22. Phill

    “There hasn’t been many movies about the moon.”

    ‘Moon’ 2009
    starring Sam Rockwell
    https://youtu.be/twuScTcDP_Q
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1182345/?ref_=nm_knf_i1

    1. Sergio

      He meant there have not been movies about the supposed First Moon Landing.

  23. Dr. Steve

    Hmmm…Here is another defeater, I think.

    I searched a couple of databases and in a few minutes found I can book a flight direct from Sydney to Santiago, Chile. Flight details:

    Qantas Airways, Flight 27. Departs Kingsford Airport, 4/27/2015, 11:25 AM (GMT +10). Arrives Arturo Merino Benitez Airport (GMT-3) 11:05 AM. Equipment: Boeing 747-438, range of 7,892 miles loaded. Map crow says the distance is 7,044 miles. That’s 13 time zone time change. Courtesy of FlightTrack. I use this app all the time for business travel. So far I have arrived where I was going!

    I know, they are secretly going another way. so no one realizes the earth is flat. That would significantly lengthen their flight, I think. You think the passengers would notice?

    The main reason I would think that they mostly use hub and spoke model is that everyone everywhere uses a hub and spoke model.

    Sheesh!

    BTW, this fellow’s videos are extremely polished for having come to the realization of this fact for just 8 weeks.

    Shalom!

  24. Brian

    Hmm… the first time I posted this, it didn’t show up so let me try again:

    Like Basil, I was extremely skeptical at first and I’m still not convinced but I have to say it’s a mind-blowing concept and would better answer a lot of things. I had no idea how world travel could work on a closed system at first but after seeing that map he was talking about, it makes a lot more sense. I had never seen such a map!

    He’s also right about the plane travel. My dad and brother are air traffic controllers and I always wondered why the planes take really weird routes sometimes. They often appear to be going very indirectly to get somewhere but it’s much faster. Now my dad explained it as due to the earth being narrower towards the north and south poles so it cuts time out and also winds tend to be more favorable which makes sense but this map would also make those flight paths much more direct which is extremely interesting. Also I’ve never seen a flight path go all the way through Antarctica, only nearby it.

    Another thing that came to my mind during the interview was the book of Enoch where he talks about touring the world/universe with an angel. The description Enoch gave makes a lot more sense with this type of system as opposed to the currently accepted global system (although I don’t really put faith in the Book of Enoch, I just think it’s very interesting and could be at least partially true). Also, the verse in the Bible where it says they stopped, reversed, or slowed the sun down. That would cause all sorts of problems with a solar system (although there are some good theories/explanations) but no issues with a flat/enclosed system. Now he did say there is no ancient civilization that didn’t believe in flat/enclosed earth but what about the Babylonian artifacts that show a solar system (with 1 extra planet)?

    I think the implications of this type of system being revealed with clear evidence would shake the foundations of the atheists/naturalist’s view significantly as Mark mentioned. If they were in a simulation type environment, it would become more obvious that there is at least some sort of God or intelligence behind it and that Earth really is unique and special. So could the global/solar system model be a massive deception by Lucifer like evolution was to get people to fall from God and make them easier to manipulate? But then again, could all the pictures and videos of Earth from space really be fake or manipulated to make it look like a globe? So many scenarios/possibilities are going through my head right now!

    Hehe, I know you got a lot of haters and detractors over this episode but I’m glad you did it. This one was truly “outside the cage” and that’s why I listen. At the very least, I won’t think someone is totally bonkers if they believe it anymore. As for myself, well, I’d say I’d have to do more research and would be very curious to hear what others who are investigating this theory find. Thanks.

    1. Stephen DeNagy

      Hey Brian!

      “Now my dad explained it as due to the earth being narrower towards the north and south poles so it cuts time out and also winds tend to be more favorable which makes sense but this map would also make those flight paths much more direct which is extremely interesting. ”

      You don’t need a flat earth to explain this. the great circles of latitude are the long way around. If you draw a circle, it is much longer to follow the circumference than a chord across the middle of the circle. This will always be the case. They would be equivalent only if the source and destination airports were much closer to the equator. Since both are quite far north, especially the European destinations, it is far less distance to go across the north than following the circumference. And, as they say, the earth is a slightly squished ball, and so this further lessens the distance slightly. Also we still need an explanation for the coldness of the North climates in a flat earth model, and why seasons happen in some places, but not others.

  25. John

    This website shows pics of the Earth from sources other than NASA.
    http://planetary.org/explore/space-topics/earth/pics-of-earth-by-planetary-spacecraft.html

  26. Eric

    It was fun to listen to this podcast, though I don’t take the flat earth idea seriously, much less this version of the captive earth, or whatever term he used.

    You guys asked some pretty good questions, but most of his answers were less than acceptable. Especially about the satellites and what the sun and moon are.

    With all of that aside, what I would like to have had him answer is how he explains weather and seasons. I can make a basic appeal for it with flat earth, but I would like to have heard his explanation.

    Either way, keep finding the guys that are not main stream and keep pushing the strange.

  27. Trint

    Wow, I posted comments right after this episode went up.. 2 actually. They weren’t offensive or disrespectful to anyone… Why were they not allowed? This isn’t the first time my comments have been ignored here. As a long time fan of Gonz’s work, I’ll honestly say I’ve lost a lot of respect for both him & Canary Cry. Good luck in the future, I won’t be listening.

    Sincerely,

    Trint

    1. admin

      Is it still missing? We have to approve the first comment so we don’t get spam. And a lot of comments have gone into the spam box as well. I believe both your initial comments are now posted. They weren’t “not allowed” and if you’re not going to continue listening because of that, that’s your deal, but it would be making a mountain out of an ant hill. God Bless.

  28. Nathan

    There was a spacewalk recently with a GoPro that did a 360 view. Has that footage been evaluated?

  29. Matt

    I loved this episode, because it forced me to seriously challenge my preconceived notions the same way I had to when learning of the Nephilim and all the peripheral subjects tied to the “days of Noah”. After hearing this episode I did hours of research and contemplation. It’s funny to think that we could be so duped, but the father of lies is really good at what he does. The populace believes the earth is round, the universe is billions of years old with trillions of galaxies, and that life evolves from “simple” single cell life forms without any necessity of design. All such factors support the assumption that there is no need for God. If we take His Word at face value, then the “flat earth” model does make more sense.
    I found it interesting that Rob Skiba even seems to be on board in taking the flat earth model seriously enough to consider. I kind of hope that it is yet another deception aimed at populace controll that is being revealed by true watchmen. I think we’ll find out when Jesus comes back.
    Blessings and Grace to all y’all and thank you Basil and Gonz

  30. Unplugged

    This, along with geocentrism, has always been something that’s fascinated me so I’m excited about checking this out. Wanted to note, however, since I’m up to the first clue in the broadcast, that there was a channel on Dish Network called Dish Earth that used to broadcast 24 hours of live camera footage of earth from a distance. There are videos on youtube of footage of it. Unfortunately they took it down a few years ago but it was interesting while it lasted (and who knows what in the world they were actually broadcasting lol).

    Thanks for delving into topics like this that so many others refuse to! God bless you guys!

  31. I went into this somewhat new to the “flat earth” idea – but also very informed – as well as an open mind to Mark Sargent. I do not discriminate against anyones ideas without just cause but it does bother me how every question in this interview was answered like a car salesman. Every question was, “Excellent! Even though I can prove nothing, this is a fact because I say so! Here’s my answer…” For anyone to be SO certain on ideas so controversial that cannot be proved is completely ridiculous. There is a difference between having confidence in an idea and being arrogant about “knowing” something no one seems to really know.

    This is just a bad interview. Just to cite one example here – The Parabolic Vomit Comet that NASA used to use? Really? Yeah, I’ve been on it several times. It’s not large enough to house the entire ISS as they’ve shown and anyone can look that up.

    This guy is selling a very bizarre narrative for God knows what reason. Could just be narcism and attention seeking?

    I appreciate y’alls work and I appreciate you reaching out as far as you do, so great job.

  32. G. T.

    Haven’t listened to this one (and probably won’t), but someone mentioned Mike Heiser. His work on the divine council is interesting, but his low view of Scripture is alarming: regardless of what he might claim to the contrary, his position is plainly that the Bible presents an erroneous view of the physical universe. As is usual amongst academics, he doesn’t allow for the notion that he himself may not only have misunderstood the picture painted in Scripture, but that it may not be possible for humans to understand it — that what his human mind pictures as being in three spatial dimensions may in fact be a hyperdimensional description of the cosmos from God’s point of view, unimaginable to man (at least this side of the resurrection, anyway).

  33. Sacha

    “How can we believe the earth is round?”
    http://www.metrolyrics.com/21st-century-blues-lyrics-toto.html

  34. John

    I do believe that Mark Sargent is either disingenuous, ignorant (willfully or otherwise), or lacks the capability to falsify his own theory. It is very simple (8th grade math) to mathematically disprove the flat earth model with North in the centre.

    Firstly, the latitudinal distance is a global constant of approx. 112.2km (69 miles) per degree of latitude. If you calculate the diameter of the equator based on this premise it comes to 20196km (12550 miles) whereas it is known to be 12742km (7918 miles).

    Further to this, the country I live in, Australia, is of a similar size to mainland USA, but using the above model, to calculate the distance from Sydney to Perth (32.35 degrees of longitude apart) you would find a straight line distance of 12427km (7721 miles) which is surprising seeing that the distance by road is only 3938.1km (2447 miles). This is somewhat of a quandary unless there is some sort of 4th dimensional hyper-spacial anomaly between Perth and Sydney.

    Even if we base our calculation on the known diameter of the equator and ignore the known latitudinal distance of 112.2km per degree, we still find that Sydney and Perth are 6289km (3908 miles) apart.

    Now if you were to explain to me that I am misinterpreting the model because the model shows Australia as the regular size that we would normally consider (approx, 3277 km straight line from Perth to Sydney) and that the increased distance was out in the oceans, I would ask you to please explain the time zones, sunrise and sunset times, daylight time in summer and winter and all the rest of the anomalies that this all creates.

    The argument for a flat earth is completely bankrupt.

    It was interesting to hear what sort of bizarre theories are getting propagated around the webosphere, but me thinks it wise to qualify them as just that, nutty wacko theories.

  35. Caji316

    Out of all the REAL people there are out there doing research on the flat earth how and why did yall pick a shill? Why didn’t you have ERIC DUBAY on and hear the truth and not opinion stated as truth?a someone not always holding a round globe i their hands when doing an interview to reinforce a ball earth… At least you could have had Math Boylan on, even he is much more credible than mark the shill sargent. Wake up guys. Get Dubay on for your 100 show….Thanks…

  36. FT

    ATTENTION ALL FLAT EARTH SOCIETY MEMBERS
    Dr. Chuck Missler President/Founder, Koinonia Institute
    Calling all “Flat Earth Society” members! Don’t throw away your historical credentials! It now turns out that your perceptions may have been even more extensive than previously suspected! Not only the Earth, but the entire universe may be “flat.”
    http://www.khouse.org/personal_update/pdfs/personal_update_1507.pdf

  37. anjish

    Rob skiba is unknowingly creating confusion in midst of Christianity, It will probably lead new believers to doubt Jesus’s faith. Ultimately it is fulfilling the Evils plan of deceiving The believers. I think it didn’t , isn’t, will not benefit to bring new souls unto salvation in Christ. I would suggest , Rob stop this junk and better you evangelize Jesus to your neighbor.

    1. Brian

      On the contrary, I have come across many people who became convinced the earth is flat and started believing the Bible and Christ because of it. I can have you talk to two people who just got saved if you don’t believe me. Satan has lied about nearly everything and once people see through the lies, they inevitably come to Christ, who is Truth! It’s the same with exposing evolution and false religions. So lay off of Rob, I believe he is doing good work for the cause of Christ.

  38. CryptOctopus

    The intro was amazing. 🙂

    I never thought I would ever question the shape of the earth.

    Now its funny to say that after tests and reflecting back on my experience in the airline industry as a fly attendant I can only say my 5 senses and my logic tells me that we are not moving and that we are not on a globe.

    That being said, i dont find Mark’s clues very scientific or particularly convincing.

    But go ahead, find out for yourself by using your 5 senses, your mind and a willingness to test reality. Beware of Argumentum ad populum!

  39. Leo

    what happen when ships disappear in the horizon?

  40. Donna

    The info. re: FE does not depend on Mark or anyone else. Each one of us can look for the truth & find it & see that it agrees w/ God & the BIBLE. The truth has always been there from the beginning & hidden from people for different periods of time. NOW we are rediscovering it! Read TERRA FIRMA & ALSO ZETETIC ASTRONOMY both written in the 1800’s.

  41. Joel

    Hmm this is a game changer. Mannnn i dont even know anymore. Lol.

    Btw my gf and i love canary cry radio. We wish we could have the usb drive, but unfortunately we dont have the funds, but that’s ok.

    Ya’ll should make a canary cry radio app. But then ya’ll prolly thought about that already. And we also saw you guys at san Capistrano unseen realm conference. We wanted to personally thank you guys but we were too shy
    Haha.

    I really just wanna tell you guys how much of a blessing you guys are to us!
    Keep serving the Lord! And thank you for all your work.

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