CCR 073: The Gay Episode

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GRACE IS NOT A WORD that you often find associated with Gay. But for Brandon and John of FreeIndeed Ministries, the two words are simply synonymous. In The Gay Episode, Basil and Gonz have a discussion with Brandon and John about their ministry and how they approach the subject matter with the grace that only God can provide. In our current cultural milieu, homosexuality and the “Gay Agenda” is a heated topic with Christians finding themselves right in the middle of the battlefield. On the surface, there are only two sides to the conversation; people in favor of the Gay Agenda and people who are opposed to it.

Often times, those in favor will consider themselves progressive, accepting, and tolerant while those who oppose the Gay Agenda, usually associated as Christians, are considered bigots, close minded, and full of hate. But in fact the reality of the situation is far more complex. Not only are there more than the polarized sides that the mass media would like us to believe, but the political propaganda associated with homosexuality has also muddied the waters, making this subject particularly difficult to navigate. Within the Christian world, the issue is also quite divided. There are some Christians who are outright against anyone who calls themselves homosexuals, calling it a greater sin than any other. These Christians often mention Sodom and Gomorrah, and several other passages that mention God’s disdain for such behavior but what they seem to lack is grace. On other other hand, there are those who justify the Gay Agenda and tout that the lifestyle itself is completely acceptable to God.

Brandon and John toe a very fine line in between these two areas. While they do not see homosexuality as any greater sin than gossip or adultery, they also do not condone the behavior as being particularly Godly. Rather, their ministry purely focuses on the grace of God and to enlighten both Christians and non-Christians struggling with homosexual tendencies with the delicacy, patience, and the love of Christ.


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27 comments… add one
  1. Sire Lansing

    2 Peter Chapter 2. May the Holy Sprite be your guide.

  2. Jamie Dillon

    I agree with some of the things these guys say, but read the end of Leviticus 18, 26 But you shall keep my statutes and my rules and do none of these abominations, either the native or the stranger who sojourns among you
    27 (for the people of the land, who were before you, did all of these abominations, so that the land became unclean),.
    28 lest the land vomit you out when you make it unclean, as it vomited out the nation that was before you.
    The guests on your show are mistaken on there Old Testament views. You guys should interview Dr. Michael Brown at As he has written books and is very clear and graceful on the issue. Bless you on The Lord Jesus!

  3. Jamie dillon

    God said He judged the lands for all the sins in Leviticus 18.

  4. Shawn

    The guests on this episode seem to imply that omitting the sexual aspects/acts from the gay relationship makes it okay in God’s eyes. And that it is an acceptable alternative to male-female relationships of marriage as long as they don’t get married themselves, to one another.

    In Genesis 2 God created woman to be a helper for man, he did not create another man (or even 2 women).

    I do agree with most of what they say about how we should treat people and love them though. Kindness is the best way to reach people who are hurting and in need of a Savior(everyone). But it does seem to me that they are trying to make Jesus more palatable to the LGBT community, but doing so through soft doctrine and a loose hermeneutic.

    1. admin

      Re-listen starting at 50 minutes. That was precisely for you.

      1. Rocketman

        One of the guests(some time prior to 50min mark) refers to a person that he would liken to being his husband and it didn’t sound allegorical to me.

        In case I am the one confused here(no pun); is John currently in a same gender relationship(minus the sex)? That’s what it sounded like to me.

  5. anon

    Didn’t Jesus say if you lust after women with your eyes, you already have sinned? If a male person lusted after a man, then he also have sinned.

    I agree that the closer you draw to God, the more sin He’ll reveal in your life. And it is good for anyone to draw closer to God, regardless of the level of their repentance, because He has revealed many sins throughout my walk after I believed in Him.

    It bothers me that they remain effete and flamboyant which is a part of that lifestyle. I have dined with many gay people and I don’t mind fellowshipping with them one bit, but I would question them in regards to their ministry and how they still seem to “act” gay and speak in a gay manner.

    If I’m struggling with lust and porn, I don’t think I should be leading a ministry about lust and porn. The same goes with ministries for drug addiction or other negative behaviors.

    I should listen to your podcast again. I may have misheard.

  6. Great guys. The IRON SHOW is modeled after my best friend in high school Don Henson. A musical genius; a musical prodigy and a deep thinking artist. At the self same time Don Henson was as wild and crazy and sleazy and loud and wild and crazy and sleazy and loud gets. The combination of his two sides was something that really reached out and grabbed you at a profound level. I broke out in tears the first time I heard him playing one of his library of over 2000 songs that he had written and ranged. He was also as queer as a three dollar bill. I have always been strait. Never been attacked to men or animals. I am like a girls only kinda guy. But I dearly loved Donny. He was my best friend. The sleaze ball finally made a move on me and that ended the friendship but I miss him badly. He was one of the first people to die of aids in early 83.

  7. Rob

    Hey Bas,

    Thanks for asking them to clarify the difference between the Israelite-intended Levitical laws and homosexuality. I was shaking my head in disappointment when they started down that path and sighed with relief when they brought up Jesus’s outline of proper relationships in Matthew. Much appreciated.

    1. Jamie Dillon


  8. Eric

    Great show, guys. I love the fact that the guest talked about just loving people and not having to be confrontational.
    The one thing that I was hoping for was for you to ask the guests about their view on homosexuality as a choice versus being born that way. There was some discussion similar to that, but I would have really liked to have that question asked directly.

  9. This was one of your best episodes ever. Really. You guys did an excellent job handling the questions and allowing the guests to explain where they are coming from in all of it’s nuances. I too had a couple moments towards the beginning of the interview where I was a little fuzzy as to what exactly they were or weren’t saying, but as you kept on going, there was no doubt left at all as to where all four of you come down, and it was awesome… Possibly the best articulated conversation I’ve ever heard on this topic in the light of Christ.

    1. I am forced at gunpoint to agree with the Truth is stranger than fiction dude there with the mic in his face pic.

      Well said. I totally agree. Articulate and thorough BIRD boys to be sure.


      1. WHAT’SUUUUUUUUP Johnny… 🙂

        It’s a picture of Truman (from “The Truman Show”), as he is picking up a studio light that mysteriously fell out of the sky, signifying the moment when he really starts to wonder what’s really goin on out there….. (you diggin the metaphoricality there…?)

      2. Mr pretzel breath

        Hey Johnny, I hope you get those iron choppers soon so you get back on the iron horse pronto. You are the man my friend. Much loved…not in a gay way but you know what I mean.

  10. Matt

    I agreed with much that was said on this show. I think it’s important for us not to categorize a group of people by their sin, but to recognize that all of us without Christ are lost, gay or not. I do have a question, however, concerning the “immoral brother”. 1 Corinthians 5 tells us to expel the immortal brother to Satan for the destruction of his flesh such that his spirit can be saved (someone who calls himself a Christian yet openly lives in sin without repentance). My question is at what point do we do this? Gay or not, if a sinful lifestyle within the body of Christ is not abandoned we as the church must confront it. It is vitally important to remember that we, as Christ’s ambassadors, are not to bring condemnation to the unbelieving world since that was not Christ’s mission as explained in John 3:17, but to bring the freeing truth of the Gospel. Then the Holy Spirit will bring conviction.
    Thanks Bas and Gonz for your ministry!

    1. Andrew

      I have the same questions that Matt has, and also remember Ephesians 5:11-13. I wonder then, can we take a step back and say “This is something I want to do, and I want to make it right in God’s sight,” about anything we do that is a sin but we don’t want to call it that? Sin has always been about “I do what I want,” and always will be. The fact that satan is the father of lies shows us that sin will be twisted in ways that cause us to doubt that it is sin. I read Ephesians 4:22-24 and see this as instruction for how my life should be and would be transformed as a believer. As we grow closer to God and Jesus, we’ll want to give up those things that tie us to the world and keep us from Him as the Holy Spirit works in us.

  11. Simon

    These guys seem well intentioned but also naive. I think one of them has been a christian for 1 year? Their doctrine on homosexuality and the OT is weak…I think they’ve picked up some bad teaching there.
    I doubt any gay person will be able to live the way they suggest for any length of time without falling back into homosexuality.
    They are very soft and perhaps too sympathetic to homosexuality, but at least they have the gospel up front and center.

  12. sim0n

    The one guy said that he ‘can’t have sex with men’, then he said he has a husband or something. Is that true? Or was he kidding? He then went on to say that they don’t believe in celibacy…so…what does he mean by that? Is he saying that he doesn’t commit sodomy with men but he does ‘other things’ with them? Or is he saying something else? He seemed deceptive and intentionally vague. Also, he seems to believe that the old testament was only condemning homosexual practice if it was prostitution in the temple – a stance that many gay ‘christians’ and apologists take, which is unbiblical. See dr michael browns youtube debates on this.

  13. drbboyd

    Very well handled. I was very skeptical at first. I am not a gay basher by any means. I know way more gay people than I ever dreamed. Do I agree with it? No. It is a sin and sin is sin just like adultery and lying. This is the best discussion I have ever heard on the topic and I am going to recommend in Sunday school for all to come and listen.
    Keep up the good work.

  14. sapient
  15. derfregal

    I dont have anything more against the Homosexual than I do against someone who steals or lies. My problem is when the community as a whole tries to tell the whole world that their particular lifestyle should be celebrated and paraded down the streets. I am coming around to the idea also that Yehovah desperately loves all sinners and wants to be their Elohim oi I should get rid of my particular prejudices and love them like HE does. Great show guys! Working my way through the older podcasts and only a few left till I get to your newer ones!

  16. Jeremy Stone

    forgive me but I cant understand, are these two guys ex gays?

    1. I did a show about 7 weeks ago with John from Free Indeed. If you want to hear an IRON style session with him… here it is:

  17. Jeremy Stone

    would God not change the homosexual to heterosexual with his grace? there are true testimony’s that that has happened and does happen because God created the female to be with the male, I think eventually they will see that God is trying to restore them, you are not born gay, so why choose a lifestyle that would hinder you from Gods true blessings which is to reproduce, not only that but if you don’t ask you wont receive so I think gays truly need to ask God to change the desire of their heart, and to help them with their attractions. that is my opinion, but I don’t see how it would be Gods will for people to be gay

  18. D.J

    A great insight about homosexuality. Thanks!

  19. Divide rightly

    There is plenty of evidence showing that homosexuality is brought on my psychological trauma at a young age. There is a lot of evidence to indicate this. Here’s a great video that goes into the subject by The Fuel Project:

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