CCR 101: Middle-earth with Dr. Mike Heiser

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WHAT DOES MIDDLE-EARTH & GANDALF HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH CHRISTIANITY AND DR. MIKE HEISER? Why does Basil think he’s Legolas? And why does Basil think Gonz is Gimli? So many questions. Only one answer. Episode 101.

If you identify yourself as a “Christian,” you might want to grab a warm cup of Joe, and make your brain comfortable. Because listening to Dr. Mike Heiser will make you think deeper about your faith. Why does Dr. Heiser believe that De-mythologized Christianity has caused a setback for the greater church? Could it be that the corporate relationship maintained between the academic Christian world, and the consuming Christian populous, has neglected a growing  segment of the church? Dr. Mike Heiser says, yes, and he calls it, Christian Middle-earth. And he says that we are the dwellers of it.

We are the so called “fringe” Christians, or what Derek Gilbert of SkyWatchTV and PID Radio calls the “alt (dot) Christian” community. We operate outside the conventional church. We dwell in the land between the scholarly realms, and the greater masses; mostly online, the soil of Middle-earth. Our jobs are to be “traffic cops” for those who wander into Christian Middle-earth. We create sign posts and land marks to help those who wander into Christian Middle-earth find their way. We remind the wanderers to use the Armor of God (Ephesians 6:10-20) to protect from the Saruman’s and Orc’s. And of course, Dr. Mike Heiser explains why he is considered Gandalf.

We here at Canary Cry Radio would like to think ourselves as the rest stop for Middle-earth. Stop by, take break from the battles, hang out, relax and gain wisdom from scholars like Dr. Mike Heiser. But perhaps our greatest duty is to remind all of you, to think outside the cage!

DR. MIKE HEISER LINKS

http://drmsh.com

http://theUnseenRealm.com

http://theDivineCouncil.com

 

PAST EPISODES

Episode 40

Episode 81

(Cameo on Episode 100)

http://www.canarycryradio.com/category/dr-mike-heiser/

 

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27 comments… add one
  1. Joel

    that intro was so funny , awesome , lol , Face Like The Sun , for the win , lol

  2. Melissa T

    Just finished, I think I might put this in my top 5 favorite episodes. I’m listening to it again right now. Keep it up gentlemen!

  3. Arron Swan

    LOL XD Awesome!!! LOTR favorite book series. Excited to hear this episode! God Bless!

  4. Michael Hughes

    Thesis:
    Scholars, i.e. those with PhD’s (“the non-lazy, the above average”) are of the upper realm. The laymen and those who reject the institutional church are in middle earth. Middle earth needs to reconnect to the upper realm to not be led astray. This seems to be the main thesis of Dr. Heiser. Please correct me if I am wrong.

    I agree that deep studying needs to be accomplished by any Child of God vs. blindly swallowing the teachings of the church. But to act like PhD’s are better then the child led by the Spirit of Truth is prideful, and arrogant considering Dr. Heiser puts himself in the upper realm. PhD’s in and of themselves mean nothing. In today’s institutions that has been infiltrated by the enemy years ago. This piece of paper is exactly how the enemy has been able to infiltrate the churches as well. These men’s institutions pump out atheists, pagans and humanists as well as Christians, who cares if someone raises to the top of these institutions? One doesn’t even have to be a Christian, holy or even love God to get a PhD from a Christian higher learning institution.

    I will bet on the holy righteous Christian who is led by the Holy Spirit 10 out of 10 times vs. the self proclaimed PhD.

    Does Dr. Heiser’s knowledge add to the faith? probably so, but the (lower) laymen need to test every message equally and not give more weight to a PhD.

    John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

    I Cor 8 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
    2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
    3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.

    James 4:6
    But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

    1. Natasha Robinson

      I did want to post a message – I also found the attitude of this thesis incredibly arrogant.

      I cant think Dr Heiser can be talking about the Kingdom of God in his analogy –and I worry that this kind of thinking leads to a sort of theological ghetto mentality – rather than the Christian experience of learning to know our maker.

      Sorry to mention the obvious but the people who knew the most facts about religion in Jesus day were the Pharisees.

      I read theology and philosophy at the University of Oxford – and think the idea that academics automatically outrank less educated people in God’s sight is ludicrous. Academics are a necessary part of the body, but I really think it is as nonsensical to see them as an elite as it would be to see the prophetically gifted, or those gifted with the act of service as the elite looking down on everyone else.

      1. Henrik

        Good evening. I think there´s a big difference between the Pharisees and the academics of the christian world toady sir. The Pharisees where the rulers of the judean society and they followed the teachings of man first, instead of the torah and the prophets only(“old” testament). They guarded the oral laws and their worldy powers instead of following the good book.

        And to make a difference between christians is not far fetched? I mean should i not differ between a person who belongs to the church because he got baptised as child, and attended communion. He attends church for weedings, funerals etc, never even reading the bible. He´s still a christian person, pays yearly fees to the curch and have a vague belief n a “god”. Can i not put him in one group and an academic torah-observing born again christian in a different group? He´s not talking about out-ranking and about being more saved, just differing between different groups.

        So take it easy.

        Cheers

  5. This was brilliant, thanks for having the good Wizard on. I’m going to open a whole new can of worms thanks to him! Let’s go into the reality of the Spirit World! Jesus is our only guide.

  6. IgoBy Paul

    SOO EXCITED!! It’s downloading now and I’m eagerly awaiting the listening pleasure. Those MOVIES came out while I was doing my long-term “fast” from mainstream media to instead simply SEEK CHRIST, so I still haven’t seen them, but I read the books as a child…all 7! C.S. Lewis is a great author, but Hollywood is the great perverter of truth, so…WHO KNOWS??

    Cheers!

  7. Christina

    When we read the Scriptures, we see that ‘heaven’ and ‘paradise’ are 2 different places. (Paradise is under the earth (Jesus in the earth for 3 days, the thief of faith to see Him ‘ this day’ in Paradise. After Jesus’s resurrection, He told Mary not to touch Him because He had not yet ascended to His Father – in heaven, the third heaven, the Father’s house) We (Gentile and Jew of this age) are Abraham’s descendants by promise as Galatians explains, and our inheritance is spiritual. The Israelites/Jacob are descendants by promise and their inheritance is land, earth. They will rule as kings and priests and we will govern the earth spiritually (Ephesians). Jesus is the head of His body (the church) and Israel is His bride. He will collect His body at the rapture and return to gather His bride (from paradise) at the resurrection. The temple has the names of the 12 names of the Apostles… which ones? Not Paul’s. Paul preached to our generation, the church. He explains everything we need to understand as the church. The 12 preached to Jews everything they needed to know. The Gospels lay out the plan from beginning to end for the Jews and introduces the plan (which Peter could not wrap his mind around, but submits to it as he holds the key for what is released on earth, in 2nd Peter) for a gentile fulfillment. Paul completely explains the gentile mystery. Heaven and earth will be reconciled.

  8. Christina

    When we read the Scriptures, we see that ‘heaven’ and ‘paradise’ are 2 different places. (Paradise is under the earth (Jesus in the earth for 3 days, the thief of faith to see Him ‘ this day’ in Paradise. After Jesus’s resurrection, He told Mary not to touch Him because He had not yet ascended to His Father – in heaven, the third heaven, the Father’s house) We (Gentile and Jew of this age) are Abraham’s descendants by promise as Galatians explains, and our inheritance is spiritual. The Israelites/Jacob are descendants by promise and their inheritance is land, earth. They will rule as kings and priests and we will govern the earth spiritually (Ephesians). Jesus is the head of His body (the church) and Israel is His bride. He will collect His body at the rapture and return to gather His bride (from paradise) at the resurrection. The temple has the names of the 12 names of the Apostles… which ones? Not Paul’s. Paul preached to our generation, the church. He explains everything we need to understand as the church. The 12 preached to Jews everything they needed to know. The Gospels lay out the plan from beginning to end for the Jews and introduces the plan (which Peter could not wrap his mind around, but submits to it as he holds the key for what is released on earth, in 2nd Peter) for a gentile fulfillment. Paul completely explains the gentile mystery. Heaven and earth will be reconciled. Man will rule the earth, Genesis 1:26-27.

  9. Justin Thrift

    Another awesome episode! Got my CCR USB card on the way…super stoked!!!

  10. Will Redding

    I liked the analogy alot and I like my big hairy bare feet even more now, just need to watch out for what I step in : )

  11. Guy’z am I not making things clear enough for you when saying I walk the armies of heaven, my theophany heralds the coming heavenly theocratic government. It’s not expected that you should believe me just because I tell you these things. I know you shall be humbled, the whole world and it’s armies, religions and world authorities. I tell you these things in truth as a warning, loads of you guy’z are going down with your faiths and deities desolation for absolutely all gods is knocking at the door. My sky Luton, UK.

  12. Ryan

    Good show but I was hoping you guys were actually going to get into literal middle earth stuff =/

  13. Jim Furr

    We are of Abrahams seed, but we do not replace Israel. We are grafted into the tree, the branches being removed, but the root is still in tact. GOD will return HIS attention back to Israel, after the Church is removed. All, by Faith, are saved, both Jew and Gentile.

  14. Personally disappointed to hear both Mike H. and yourselves touting Tolkien’s occult materials and notions. See this for further information if needed: http://www.illuminati-news.com/tolkien-occult.htm

    1. Josiah

      Being a Christian that has been wanting to get into writing fantasy fiction, I was always a huge fan of Tolkien and C.S Lewis’s work. I was super bummed out when I saw this too. I had an idea for a fantasy book about a fictional Polar Bear world, where the Polar Bears talked, ran a civilization, had a giant City made out of ice, etc. But after researching so much about secret societies and the occult, creating a fictional world is a bit scary because of it’s “magicalness” that happens when the audience gets sucked into the world. It’s really strange, as though the occult almost owns all things fictional or fantasy. Honestly it’s almost impossible to create a fantasy world that doesn’t somehow have hints of occultism in it if you’re not aware of what the occult is. If I didn’t know about the occult and then blindly based my fantasy writings off of past fantasy books and movies, I probably would have ended up putting occultic things in there without even knowing what they actually mean. That’s scary.

  15. Dr. Barton

    There wasn’t much new from Dr. Heiser but it was definitely an entertaining episode.

    While I admire much of Dr. Heiser’s scholarship, I was particularly disappointed with his stand on scholarly bias / dishonesty.

    First and foremost, he made no mention whatsoever of his own strong bias – That the Old Testament and, indeed, much of the New Testament can be interpreted in terms of modern views of Jesus. While much of the work in “Unseen Realm” is solid, this bias has forced him to misinterpret a number of items in the Bible. It might be the christian thing to do but deliberately interpreting text using extra-cultural references without discussion of the text using intra-cultural references is not just intellectually dishonest – it is dishonest.

    Second, it was disingenuous of Dr. Heiser to invoke Dr. Ehrman’s “pain” in adding to his argument that Ehrman’s views on the non-inspirational nature of scripture. That is a form logical fallacy called, I believe, the “strawman” fallacy. Discussion of influence on an author’s bias based on psychological factors can be done but one must build those arguments in a way to show evidence of an influence and how it affected the author’s conclusions. Anything less than that is a correlation at best (and correlation does not equal causation) and a false correlation at worst. Quite simply, it is the same argument that many religious people use that “All atheists are atheists because they have suffered loss and / or are angry at God (or gods)”. That statement can be shown to be false. It is actually less true that the statement that “All Christians believe in Jesus because they fear being condemned to Hell. They don’t believe in Jesus because the love him.”.

    The first point, I already knew about from his book. The second point is new (though not surprising) and very disappointing. Still, much of the rest of the discussion was entertaining and spot on.

  16. Bob

    The level of arrogance and condescension from Heiser is epic. And the way you two grovel over his every word and treat him as if he is the most intelligent man on earth is hilarious.

    Many Christian’s DO need to be fed more meat rather than milk, but to insinuate that a scholar, in this case Heiser, are on some different level of existence because they study obscure material that has no baring on salvation? I believe that Jesus taught a spirit of humility and humbleness, and said that the meek would inherit the earth.

    To hear Chuck Missler criticized by Heiser is also laughable. Missler presents evidence and sound Biblical teaching, he touches on Gen 6 and transhumanism, but seriously guys. I get that you talk about obscure ideas because they interest you, but don’t act as if you are feeding the poor Middle Earth folk who can barely understand anything above Jesus coming to earth to die for their sins. Accepting that and being born again is what saves a person, not learning to read Hebrew and scoffing at Christian’s who don’t know what the nephilim are.

    1. Rusty

      Bob, I agree. I’ve only ‘stumbled’ across MSH this very day…. and have been digging into his writings and his talks. I’ve been following Dr. Missler for a while now. I can confidently say that if I had found MSH first, I would have been driven further away from digging into the Bible. Luckily, when I asked in prayer, I was guided to Chuck Missler. OH my… as I’m typing I’m listening to MSH and Derek Gilbert, and he just made a statement that “could” be used to argue that the Bible it was not the inspired word of God. Wow. I guess we’re all doomed because we aren’t elite like MSH.

  17. fuzzynubbins

    In response to why the KJV is better than other versions read up on the occult background of Westcott and Hort, two people who did something most vile. Instead of simply writing another “version” of the Bible, they went back and “re-translated” the original Greek and Hebrew texts, which poisoned every version of the Bible after that because they were based on the “New” Greek and Hebrew texts. I’ve read two good books on it. There is a lot of info out there about this horrid crime. http://bibleready.org/Westcott_and_Hort.html

  18. ky144

    Hahahaha, I didn’t listen to this one yet, but I have things to say about it, very interesting that you posted this 10 days before my birthday.
    I will listen to it, then we will talk.

    1. ky144

      I am from the future and you got 100k, congrats for the silver button!

      1. ky144

        The information I will give to you know, actually gets me emotional, it is so incredible.
        WOW, it really got me emotional now, because of this timing, it is just beautiful beautiful beautiful, Gonz and/or Basil (by the way I am from Brazil, which is written Brasil in Portuguese) please read this, I am here for a reason and I think this information means something.

        So, I clicked on this because it resonated with an information that was given to me last year or so.

        I had been seeing the number 144 everywhere, I mean it, everywhere, I didn’t understand at the time, I knew about the 144000, but I didn’t know why was it appearing so much to me.

        I did some mathematics acrobatics with the days of a year and I ended up on a calendar and I kid you not, it was the “Calendar of Imladris”, which was an Elven outpost in Middle-earth.

        Now hear me out, an elven ‘year’ – yén – actually means 144 of our years.

        Now I will tell you where it gets emotional.

        See this calendar:
        http://www.elvenesse.net/images/ImladrisCal_143loa_14yen.jpg
        When does it end?

        I didn’t plan it, it just happened, out of all these months I decided to check your CarnaryCryRadio this month, this day and I saw Middle Earth and I remembered, that was how it happened. My name on youtube is 144 Ky, I posted some comments on your channel saying it is a blessing, but it was only now that I felt like hearing your podcasts.

        What does it mean?

        I am still learning, maybe you guys have something to add, but isn’t that incredible?

        It will be the 144rd loa of 14th yén (144 times 14 = 2016)

        More about the calendar:
        http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/calendars.htm

        Another think, “Imlandris” started at “SA 1697” and 1 + 6 + 9 + 7 = 23, that is 7 after 16, does that mean that 2016 will be the start of the last week of years?

        Well, that is about it, I hope you didn’t just think, “what a crazy guy” and moved on.

        Much love,

        Blessings.

        1. ky144

          Sorry if I misspelt, I am kind of what you could call dyslexic, but in fact it happens because I am thinking about something else while typing.

  19. Daniel
  20. Cathie Z

    I am a permanent resident of Middle Earth!! Yay! Thank you so much for having Dr. Heiser as a guest!! Love you guys and God Bless You and Yours FOREVER!!!

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