CCR 082: Zen Garcia and Fallen Angels

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THE JIGSAW PUZZLE OF TRUTH is often a messy, confusing, and uncomfortable landscape of information, containing a myriad of rabbit trails, esoteric text, and occult knowledge. Some of these truth nuggets that relate to the Holy Scriptures contained in what we call the Bible, are often met with skepticism, criticism, and rejection from the established orthodox of the institutionalized religious strongholds. Yet, one must decide whether or not to pursue these areas of inquiry, with the willingness of letting the evidence provide the necessary components to shape one’s view of reality. That is exactly what Zen Garcia has done in his research. After a life changing accident that left him paralyzed, brother Zen pursued the esoteric rabbit trails and sought truth in areas seldom explored. His findings have been met with rejection from many fellow Christians, who, although had good reason to question some of his interpretations, nevertheless treated Zen with less than Biblical standards. In this discussion, Basil and Gonz discuss some of Zen’s findings. Topics include the “serpent seed” theory, where it is believed that Cain is not the firstborn of Adam, but rather the son of Satan after an unholy union between the fallen angel and Eve. Zen discusses why he believes this doctrine to be an accurate depiction of the identity of Cain, and why he believes that this unholy bloodline are still on the earth today in the form of the elite, often referred to as the New World Order. They also discuss the topic of a pre-adamic race and the possibility that there were beings who roamed the solar system well before the creation of Adam and Eve in the garden. While such topics are highly debated within those who investigate the issue, and while Basil and Gonz don’t necessarily agree with all of the findings presented by Zen, this episode is the perfect example of the Canary Cry Radio Creed, which is to always…Think Outside The Cage.

LINKS

Zen Garcia’s Main Website (http://zengarcia.com)

Fallen Angels TV (http://fallenangels.tv)

Serpent Seed Debunked A Challenge to the View (http://goo.gl/mtcsFJ)

-LoFi File Click HERE

37 comments… add one
  1. Kathie Boehnemann

    So, Noah who was perfect in his generations & he & his family were preserved thru the flood while all other life perished. If this is true about the blood line of Cain, am I to believe that God missed something in Noah’s family? And, it didn’t matter to Adam that Eve “slept” with the devil? Also, why would God put a mark on Cain to keep anyone from killing him if he were the son of Satan?

    1. These are all very relevant questions and things that I have thought of myself. Yes Noah was perfect in his generations. This is why he and family were spared but this does not mean that everybody on the ark was perfect in their generations like Noah. In fact Ham had sexual relations with his mother resulting in the curse of Canaan. I will share a link to a show I did which speaks about this as topic and why the serpent seed was allowed continuance through even the flood should you or anyone else care to listen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bIR2d43aUM

      The purpose of the flood was not to eradicate fully the seed of the serpent but to diminish them so that the seed of the woman would have chance to gain a foothold in a renewed world. This is why Genesis 6 states that there were giants in the land before and after the flood and why it says in the parable of the sower and wheat and the tares to allow both to grow together (speaking of the both bloodlines, wheat and the tares, goat and the sheep) until the time of the end. The harvest ensues with the second coming of Christ but until then the enmity between lineages would be allowed continuance. As far as Cain, the mark was not a blessing of protection but a sign of distinction which preserved him for just retribution in this case that he would be murdered by one of his own bloodline 10 generations later (Lamech) and right before the flood.

    2. No… ‘AHYAH’ didn’t miss anything… The Seraphim – Reptilian – Nephilim – Malakim aka Fallen Angels… have never stopped going into the daughters of Adamah / Mankind (african in origin). This blog will help fill in some of the blanks for you, about the Fallen Angels – Genesis 6

      http://beyondthephysical.blogspot.ca/search/label/fallen%20angels

      As for the mark, it is in your face, everywhere you look… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQr1_hMEn0I#t=701

      Blessings sister..!

    3. Doris

      well Caucasians know that the race of the fallen angels were white skin, blonde hair and bright eyes. God left 10% in care of the devil and they came and carry out their evil plans in the earth. Caucasians are fallen angels seeds.They are evil spirits in the earth and Enoch said in the last generation they the white race will live amongst us. They have no souls.

  2. Jamie Dillon

    Genesis 4:1 Now the man had relations with Eve his wife and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain.

    pretty cut and dry I think. Tree of Life Version

    Jesus the Messiah bless you

    1. Linda

      Gen.1:1. And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.
      2. And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of the sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. KJV
      He mentioned the semi-colon and a semi-colon: A semicolon is most commonly used to link (in a single sentence) two independent clauses that are closely related in thought. CONCEPTION
      In this case Adam had intercourse with his wife. then the part about Cain and her believing she received him from the Lord and then she also bare Abel. When you think of the promise of a seed, who would be of a woman (virgin) the Spirit would overshadow her and this son would be by GOD you have to ask why she said “I have gotten a man from the Lord. Why not Adam, or Adam knew her and she conceived and bore Cain and Abel. The wording is that way for a reason. Does it simply give credit to GOD who gives all life and plans every part of HIS creation etc..BTW Jesus/God is the creator of all things. It is a little weird choice of structure.

      The part that made me question is 3:12 . . .and I did eat. Didn’t Zen say something about the tree being Lucifer and so Adam eating does that mean he participated in the action after Eve ate? Sometimes you read words and they are understood in ref. to your paradyme. You see it through your concepts of understanding; see it a different way than is meant, or intended. Like the word seed, a plant or a embryo/egg. I just see something terrible enough to cause a curse, a banishment, a bloodline that leads to evil=anti-Christ and one that desires the things of GOD. One leads to death and one to life. Something so bad in the “beguiling” that Satan was cursed and the garden shut off and an angel guarded it. Everything gets cursed, and yet look at what the Jews continually did and yet GOD was long suffering towards them. They burned their children to Baal, they sought after gods always, they crucified Christ! Satan has a seed when does that happen along the way before Christ is born. I say it must have been very early; at the beginning possibly?

      1. Spy

        I would like to get Dr. Mike Heisers take on this. He being a language scholar and Bible student . Wonder how he parses this out?

        CC should get his take on this issue for some clarification.

  3. Spy

    I would say that the Serpent Seed doctrine is very beguiling in and of itself, however, that’s about where it ends. While Zen Garcia is very clearly very well versed, I would caution placing SO MUCH emphasis on some of these GNOSTIC texts — and believe me, that’s exactly what they are.

    Why would the Lord God give us his Word and leave so much to the imagination? This is an honest question. I’m going to stick with the Bible on this one guys….Genesis 4:1 like the other writer mentions.

    Genesis 4:1 (KJ21) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    4 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, “I have gotten a man from the Lord.”
    Genesis 4:1 (ASV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    4 And the man knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man with the help of Jehovah.
    Genesis 4:1 (AMP) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    4 And Adam knew Eve as his wife, and she became pregnant and bore Cain; and she said, I have gotten and gained a man with the help of the Lord.

    1. Jared Allan

      Think about it, why are the Gnostic Texts labled bad. Who said they are bad and why.
      If we are facing the devil and demons then don’t you think its possible they were labeled bad so we didn’t have detailed explanation of the Gospels. The Devil decieveth the whole world. My children are destroyed for lack of Knowledge, Christ said. They don’t teach this stuff in cemetery. Why is that, who are the teachers of the teachers. Why did the Pharisees pay off the Roman soldiers who saw the angels at the tomb of Christ.
      Why did the Pharisees try to kill Joseph of Arimathea and then when he escaped try to bribe him.
      Its lies upon lies upon lies. Also Jesus said the serpent would bite at the heal of Man. Goliaths head was under the cross, its historical. Deny whatever you want you will hear it all very soon when Christ is back shaking Zens hand and looking at you with pitty.

  4. YT Archangel

    I don’t care what subject one is discussing. When you add ‘those who have eyes to see and ears to hear’ is an automatic red flag. If we strip away the religious sounding smoke screen we can see what a manipulative statement this is. One is saying that if you don’t believe what I believe or see what I am saying then you are deceived. Plain and simple. Just encourage us to be Bereans, meaning, receive the fullness of the message with an open mind and then go back to scripture to see if it so. Threatening that one is deceived and doesn’t have ears to hear because they don’t believe what you are teaching is manipulative and therefore a demonic tool. This phrase is so abused and it should only be used if one reads scripture word for word and does not give their opinion….and if people don’t agree with what I have to say then you do not have ears to hear…just kidding.

    1. Linda

      🙂

    2. SCRays

      however this is NOT what Zen is doing and to suggest he is, is un Christ like. I have never seen anyone present well researched ideas as respectfully as Zen Garcia. If you do not accept what he says that is fine. But please do not twist his intentions. He loves the Lord and does far more than most do for the kingdom. His theory also holds consistent throughout the end times which should be considered as well.

      1. YT Archangel

        If you listened to the podcast Zen DID say that exact phrase multiple times in regards to HIS INTERPRETATION. I am not judging his heart, but the words that he uses. This is a manipulative tool whether he knows it or not. He used it often, capitalizing ‘NOT’ does not have any bearing on the facts.

    3. Kathie Boehnemann

      Amen

  5. Shira MacLennan

    All things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made that was made. John 1:3 KJV.

    I was drawn into this line of contemplation for a few hours….but it doesnt take long & you don’t have to “study all the extrabibilical texts” to see that this idea dangerously contradicts Scripture.

    Although I can conceive of the possibility of intercourse betw Eve & the Fallen One, there could be no children born from such a union – unless of course the Father chose to create one. All Creation in His (see John 1:3). Therefore, biologically speaking at least, anything that is born, would have to be made by & hence belong to the Father, right? What does this line of reasoning mean for the whole idea of the Nephilim?

    also found myself wondering—If these Aramaic & Palestinian Targums were the best translations of the original Hebrew account of Genesis, then wouldn’t our King James bibles have been based on these texts? Why & how did such information (ie- the extra details for Genesis 4:1) get omitted?

  6. Linda

    I will comment later on show, but went to fallenangel.tv and started to listen to this program. Does Zen believe this stuff?
    http://www.fallenangels.tv/video/video esp. 1:02:29 forward re. Adam, the bible all as allegory the whole bible is allegory. Do I have the right link? I looked at it and then this “/videos”. and he/guest program said we are all part reptilian??? On his site Zen promoted astro-projection and got some flack in comments as a satanist if so. He said it was natural and like the dreams of Jacob and others GOD speaking to us. Take a listen!

    1. If he is really promoting astral projection as being something that is of God then indeed we gotta definite problem…
      I’d say there are a good many reasons to question the “Lucifer seed” idea, one of thembeing like you said, if Eve eating the fruit really meant having sex with Lucifer, then you’d have to conclude that Adam did as well… (!?)

      Plus, you have to then also go back and explain what is being “allegorized” by the tree of life. Was that sexual too? Were all the trees in the garden which they were allowed to “eat” from representing various types of approved sexual relations then? It gets increasingly problematic the more you try and go back and read through the entire chapter through the lens of Luciferic fatherhood of Cain…

      I would further add that his interpretations of Matthew 13 as being a cut and dry genetic reference isn’t as solid as he thinks either.
      The whole idea certainly merits a very thorough examination by the full council of scripture. So whatif the Illuminati sincerely believe they are the physical descendants of Lucifer, that doesn’t make it so…

      1. SCRays

        Adam may have had sex with Lucifer. The possibility completely exists that Lucifer could have appeared as a women too. However, repulsive the idea may seem at first if Lucifer appeared as a man, it does not make the argument weaker by any means. Just harder to accept if one struggles to accept different ideas. I struggle with how people can claim that ideas like this are “out of bounds” yet except without question all the other supernatural elements of the Bible. God bless us all in our journey to grow closer to Christ.

        1. Dr. Barton

          You make a pretty good point though not quite the way that you put it. Tradition (if not the “Bible” which only (to my knowledge) mentions Lilith in the story of Samson) has it that Lilith (the woman of Genesis 1) had children with the Devil. I’ve always thought that a bit fanciful but it does raise the interesting question of, did Lilith have any children by Adam before they split up?

          So, there are:

          1) Adam and Lilith – Possible unspecified descendants.
          2) Satan and Lilith – Legion of devils that infest the world.
          3) Adam and Eve – Abel, Cain(?), Seth.
          4) Satan and Eve – Cain and his descendants.
          5) Mark of Cain – Affected descendants.
          6) Curse of Ham – Affected descendants.
          7) Sons of the Elohim and Daughters of Adam – Nefilim.

          Do we have any other contaminated bloodlines to consider?

          1. Dr. Barton

            8) Yahoweh and Eve – Cain and his descendants.

    2. Cathy

      Hi Linda. I’ve know/listened/read brother Zen for four years now. Not once have I heard him say the Bible is allegory. I note on the link you have given in your comment goes to over 5500 videos on his website. BTW, when Zen was on our radio show in the past, he has said specifically he does NOT promote Remote Viewing or Astral Projection. Even to his topic of Lucifer as father of Cain, he most emphatically states it is not a salvation issue. The topic of bloodlines from Genesis post creation is a DEEP one and best served by a study which I hope you would find beneficial. I surely did! Praise God for the works of Zen Garcia, that have given me a concise source of study that not many are wont to undertake. Matthew 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. Much thanks to CCR, Gonz & Basil for having Zen on.

  7. Anyelle69

    I’m very much taken a back by what he is saying. Why is he not mentioning the flood in the context of his study? Why wasn’t Eve punished further? Why did God show some form of mercy on Cain and his descendents? This makes no sense to me. While I do believe that the elite bloodline does exist, they are being lied to and given the promises given to Eve.

    1. Linda

      I figure if I need to know these things, then GOD will reveal them as we continue along HIS plan. We are Christ’s Body and He has shared all things of His with His Body, so I figure if needed He will share that as more of His light is extending on our path we’ll understand more. GOD has a plan and HE is working HIS plan! So for now it’s just sitting on the shelf in the back of my mind. Too many unknowns.

  8. Philip pixler

    The main problem with this dude is he seems to believe that you are supposed to translate the “canon” using extra biblical texts. It’s clear from his confusing diatribe about creation and the preadamic events that he relies heavily on ancient pagan theology from different sources to piece together this “history”. Hate to say this basil and gonz but I think you guys just want interviewed a whack job. I’m incredibly open to the crazy but only when that crazy comes with enough reality to back it up.

    Like I said, this guys main problem is he’s interpreting scripture through a pagan lense instead of the other way around.

    1. Jason267

      You are totally correct. As he implied at the beginning of the podcast he came from a background of Eastern and New Agey beliefs. The problem is that he didn’t “come out” of them far enough. To place the Kolbrin Bible on a par with scripture was all I needed to hear to know that Zen’s discernment was lacking if not non existent. A further perusal of his website just reinforced my conclusion. Quite a few of his sources are unorthodox which put him at odds with a sound Biblical hermeneutic of scripture.
      Also off putting was his inference that anyone who didn’t agree with his conclusions was either an idiot, blind or a sheeple. I heard no humility or grace in some of his statements.
      I just pray that Zen will have a spiritual awakening that the Bible is unique, living and “God Breathed”. There is NO other book like it. To consider it equal amongst other so called “holy books” is asking for trouble and will surely lead one to not divide the word of God correctly.

      1. Are we not told to be wise as serpents and innocent as doves? Does my studying everything I can get my hands on somehow make me a lesser Christian? Is there something wrong with wanting to learn everything that I can and stepping outside of the box to gain insight as Gonz and Basil put it? Why not study everything when it comes to trying to understand truth? If it is your mindset that we should stick to the KJV only why? I believe truth can be found in more places than just the King James version of the canon and that there were are many books throughout history and time memorial which were and have been inspired by the Most High God. And just to clarify, I base everything I think and believe upon the foundation of the canon and that I do not put or equate other texts as authoritative to the KJV rendering of the canon but do believe that the study of other texts can help us to understand the canon in ways that we might not otherwise have. It is also my belief that we are the last generation and as such that many books that have been lost forgotten and forbidden are coming to light and that this is part of the fulfillment, prophecy of the spirit being poured out on all flesh. And that these things are being done purposely by the Most High in order to help us to understand things which have been lost forbidden forgotten and eradicated in order to hide aspects of truth in connection to things like what we are discussing here. I absolutely feel there is reason behind this as well as other revelations and that these things were and are inspired by the Most High.

        1. NewTony

          Thanks for taking the time to respond. I thoroughly enjoyed your presentation. I purchased the book on Amazon just as you transitioned to the pre-history stuff. You kinda lost me on that portion – or it didn’t come across as clear as the “seed” story. I have to say that it provides a lens with which to see this world through that for the first time in my life makes perfect sense. So many puzzle pieces that I have been carrying around for years just fell perfectly into place. I immediately felt a moment of clarity and a strength in conviction to an extent that I have never experienced before.
          The prophecy of the end times tells me that if I am part of the last generation my fate is to be martyred in a death so terrible it is beyond my imagination. The knowledge you espouse strengthens my faith and will give me that much more strength to endure when the time comes. In the mean time I can finally see the enemy for what they really are and knowing your enemy is the first step to fighting effectively. Thanks again. I cant wait for the book to arrive.

      2. Dr. Barton

        Just to be clear, you do know that the current composition of both the Old and New Testaments is the product of human voting, right? God did not produce a list of the books to be included in the Bible (except for Genesis through Joshua). Men had many, many debates on what was to be canon and what was to be excluded. Many books that were accepted as canon by a minority were excluded. To this day, the various groups fight over inclusion of some of the “fringe” books.

        To say, “sola scriptura” is to conform to a list of books that man selected not a book that God selected. Mr. Garcia may be more correct that you. As a Christian, you may need to consider that as part of God’s mysterious plan rather than reject it out of hand.

  9. KJV onlyists are really wacky sometimes… His entire Cain argument hinges on a semicolon.
    I’m no Semitic scholar, but I’m pretty sure they didn’t have semi colons in Hebrew. Just a thought.

    1. SCRays

      Zen is not a KJV onlyist. He clearly loves the Lord and his contributions hold consistent all the way to coming of Christ. It’s certainly ok to not accept his theory but don’t write it off because it threatens your world view. His view very well may be closer to the truth then what mainstream Christianity currently accepts.

  10. William Bugg

    I was taken a back by seeing a guy named Zen was purporting his theories and ideas on here, I will say that he sure as heck seems to have a very good knowledge base and has put forth quite a few notions that never even occurred to me.
    He sure makes me think…. the notion of the divine council has been taken to a new level for me….. I am one who happens to truly believe that our dear old earth and its solar system is much older than a mere 6-10 thousand years old.
    Thanks for this presentation, it challenges me to really “think outside the cage” 🙂

  11. Truthy1

    How did Satans seed survive the flood ? We are told that Noah prohibited sexual intercourse in the Ark, but his command was violated by the raven and by Ham. The raven impregnated sundry animals because of his lechery, whereas Ham had intercourse with his wife in order to cover up the fact that she was pregnant, not by him. Ham was punished by being turned black. So The Serpent (satan) successfully tempts Eve to “eat the forbidden fruit” and everything changed forever as innocence was lost.”And Adam and Eve heard the Voice of The Lord and they were ashamed and covered themselves with fig leaves.”The shame of Adam and Eve clearly shows a new “knowledge” and awareness of sexuality and their own nakedness. Now let’s look at what happened next.”And the Lord said unto the woman, “You shall have pain in childbirth and your desire shall be towards your husband.” The Punishment upon Eve (womenhood) was pain in childbirth. This seems directly linked to sexual intercouse and pregnancy. Also her “desire” is to bear her husband’s children yet have to endure this great suffering to do so. This “curse” provides more proof that “eating the forbidden fruit” does represent SEX.Soon after their “eating of the fruit”, Adam and Eve were banned from the tree of life (that prevents aging leading to death). Now look what happened next.”And Adam knew his wife and she conceived and a son was
    born whom she named, Cain.”

    Adam and Eve had sexual intercourse (“knowing”) and Eve conceived and gave birth to a son whom she named CAIN. It seems clear that when Eve and then Adam ate of the “forbidden fruit”, this activated their human sexuality. Possibly their human “self consciousness” was fully awakened, adding sexuality to selfishness. Now let’s see what happened next in Gen:4.Eve again bore a second son and named him ABEL”. There is no record in Gen:4 that “again, Adam knew his wife and she conceived and bore a second son, Abel.Gen:4 states that “Eve again bore a son and named him Abel”.
    It seems clear that Eve had twins, Cain the first born and Abel the second born. This brings us to a modern day medical discovery. In recent years, the medical world discovered a reproductive phenomenon known as “TWINNING”. This is when a woman can become pregnant with twins that come from two seperate fathers.This rare occurance would happen if a woman has sexual intercourse and is impregnated by MALE #1, then 1-4 days later she has sexual intercourse with MALE #2 and conceives a second child in her womb. Now let’s return to Genesis in light of this knowledge. It is very possible that Satan (the serpent) tempted Eve to eat the forbidden fruit for his own agenda. Once Eve became sexually active, Satan had sex with Eve and she became pregnate with Cain. The Serpent (satan) could create a “new” race of humans, in his own twisted “image and likeness”, an army of his children to make war with God’s people. After Eve became impregnated by Satan, she gave Adam the “fruit and he ate it. Adam became sexually “turned on”, had sexual intercourse with Eve and she became pregnant with Abel. Now Eve had twins growing within her womb, TWINNING, the first fathered by Satan (Cain) and the second fathered by Adam (Abel) 1-4 days later.Once again, Eve’s Punishment was pain in childbirth. This does seem to be the direct result of Eve 1) eating the forbidden fruit, 2) having Sex with Satan and 3) becoming pregnant with his “seed”, his unholy offspring.CRIME OF CAIN We read in Gen:4 that Cain, in a jealous rage, killed his brother, Abel. When The Lord questioned Cain as to the whereabouts of his brother , Cain said, ” Am I my brother’s keeper?” (how should I know?)Cain said, ” Am I my brother’s keeper?” (how should I know?) So here we see Cain committing both Murder and lying about it. In The Gospel, Jesus called Satan, “A murderer, a liar and the father of all lies.” Like father like son? It does seem as though Cain was following in the footsteps of “His Father”, a psychopathic “Archangel”.(tiller of the earth,man of the world, not of the Spirit) If true, this does make the devil’s sins with Eve all the more sickening and evil. Lucifer was androgynous. (having features of both male and female, Baphomet) It was on that day that the first sins were committed resulting in the fall of Eve and Adam from Angels to Mortals for Adultery, Fornication, Sodomy, Coveting and Lying. I think Zen Garcia has brought to light what most have never even considered and it is backed by the Scriptures without other Texts. It is our interpretations and Modern English that has obscured the proper wording in the Scriptures and those words have been mistranslated,sometimes deliberately. (Babylonian scribes) Many of the words in English “Bibles” are in fact Pagan words and gods. http://www.ancientworlds.net/aw/Post/522055 http://askelm.com/doctrine/d980927.htm

    1. NewTony

      WOW! I never imagined that falling down a hole could be so fun. The deeper I go the more I see. I dare not say the more enlightened I become.

  12. Colleen

    When first encountering this information it can be daunting and we want first we want to dismiss it. I encourage all to take a breath and listen to the show again. While deep and difficult, I have found Zen’s analysis extremely helpful in putting the pieces of the puzzle together.

    Over the last year I have read many of Zen’s books and listened to his show regularly. He is well researched and gifted in ability to connect the dots many will not touch. The topics he gets into are not popular on the prophecy circuit or in mainline Christianity. Personally, Zen’s work answers the eternal questions that I have long been seeking. I feel like the skeleton key has been provided and for that I am most grateful.

    Look at the state of the world – We live in a world of deception, that one cannot deny. People, there is an ancient war raging and it is our task to discover the part we play. The evil ones are aware of this but many Christians don’t seem to know or care. As soldiers for Christ we must put on the Armor of God, prepare for battle and arm ourself with truth.

    Don’t judge from one show, take this to prayer and ask for direction. There is truth here if you are willing to listen.

  13. “Serpent Seed” refutation links written by those that have examined both sides of the issue and have found in favour of the Biblical narrative:

    http://www.letusreason.org/current126.htm

    https://carm.org/did-satan-have-sex-with-adam-or-eve-in-the-garden

    https://carm.org/serpent-seed-and-kenites

  14. Dr. Barton

    I finally got around to listening to this episode. Mr. Garcia, congratulations on an intriguing theory. I think that you, like many other Christians and Jews (including those in the NT), are retrojecting too much later satanic theory into early judaic lore on the Serpent and Satan but that doesn’t mean that your points aren’t worth considering.

    I’m rather impressed by your knowledge of ancient middle eastern texts. Most christian “scholars” in this field are woefully underread in this area. I do recommend that you consider switching from using the KJV of the “Bible” to another, more accurate, version. Personally, I find the “JPS Hebrew-English Tanakh” pretty good for the OT. I still disagree with some of their translations but at least it has a side-by-side hebrew text to check the english text against. It is light on explanatory commentary but it has the not-to-be-missed feature of admitting when the original Hebrew is obscure and the translation is uncertain.

    You might also want to consider the possibility that the text of “Genesis” 4 is correct and that Eve did conceive Cain by Yahoweh and not the Man. Yahoweh has repeatedly established himself as a god who gets angry and kills people. Perhaps Cain inherited that trait from his father. I realize that that isn’t in keeping with later jewish or christian speculation but they had a vested interest in maintaining an appearance of “good” about Yahoweh despite the “evil” that he very clearly commits throughout the Old and New Testaments.

    It’s too bad that you have pursued the Nebiru conspiracy. I’ve read a fair amount of sumerian and babylonian lore and I’ve seen nothing like that in those texts. Any extraterrestrial origin to the ancient middle eastern gods can only be derived from this literature by adding levels of interpretation that far exceed the breadth and scope of the original texts on an order equivalent to Xenu of Scientology.

    Everyone, thanks for the entertaining episode.

  15. Nick

    I’m sorry, but Zen is wrong. If Satan had sex with Eve, he would have had the same fate as the other angels who did the same thing in Genesis 6. He would be chained in Tartarus with the others. Scripture clearly shows that that is not the case. There targums were made by different rabbis. So they are commentaries based on these rabbis beliefs. There is no evidence that these were the standard and accepted meaning of the text. We must always be careful of bringing in outer-biblical texts, because there is a lot of suspect writings out there. We must discard those that don’t line up with scripture. We have more evidence that what we have in scripture has stayed the same and hasn’t changed since it was written.

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